Missing Codex of the Bible found?

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Ishtar
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Missing Codex of the Bible found?

Post by Ishtar » Sun Sep 28, 2008 6:01 am

If this turns up, things could get interesting.

JERUSALEM (AP) — A quest is under way on four continents to find the missing pages of one of the world's most important holy texts, the 1,000-year-old Hebrew Bible known as the Crown of Aleppo.

Crusaders held it for ransom, fire almost destroyed it and it was reputedly smuggled across Mideast borders hidden in a washing machine. But in 1958, when it finally reached Israel, 196 pages were missing — about 40 percent of the total — and for some Old Testament scholars they have become a kind of holy grail.

Researchers representing the manuscript's custodian in Jerusalem now say they have leads on some of the missing pages and are nearer their goal of making the manuscript whole again.

The Crown, known in English as the Aleppo Codex, may not be as famous as the Dead Sea Scrolls. But to many scholars it is even more important, because it is considered the definitive edition of the Bible for Jewry worldwide. ...

... "Only someone who believes that this manuscript is one of the foundation stones of the people of Israel, someone whose goal is not to get rich — only such a person can make progress," he said.

He divulged few details lest he compromise the effort. He would say only that the search is being carried out in North, South and Central America, Israel and England, and that success appeared within reach.

"If there is a possibility, as the rumors say, that there are not only small fragments but also entire sections, that is extremely exciting," said Adolfo Roitman, the Israel Museum curator in charge of the manuscript. "We're missing entire books — most of the five Books of Moses, except for a few pages, and we have no Book of Esther, no Book of Daniel."

He, like most other scholars involved, has met people who know of people who supposedly have pages. But the leads invariably end with people who refuse to talk.

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Post by Minimalist » Sun Sep 28, 2008 7:17 am

The OT books in the Dead Sea Scrolls are at least 1,000 years older, though.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Ishtar
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Post by Ishtar » Sun Sep 28, 2008 7:27 am

Yes, I know. Still, it may throw up something of interest ... I'm intrigued because they are keeping them hidden .. could they be trying to hide something?


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Post by Minimalist » Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:00 am

Who knows.

What we do not have is any indication that there was any sort of Hebrew OT prior to the Dead Sea cache. The Septuagint was written in Greek and there is simply nothing showing a hebraic text from a period before the 3d century BC.

This seems curious.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

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Re: Missing Codex of the Bible found?

Post by Rokcet Scientist » Sun Sep 28, 2008 1:18 pm

[...] it is considered the definitive edition of the Bible for Jewry worldwide. [...]
"The bible for Jewry" would be the "Torah".

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Post by kbs2244 » Sun Sep 28, 2008 3:56 pm

I am not a Jew (or even a Hebrew).
But I believe the Torah is the “bible” for Judaism.
I think there can be Jews (or Hebrews) that are not Judaic.
Judaism is the current “mainstream” religion for the Jewish people.
But it is not universal.
I am senitsitive to this because, while I consider myself a Christian, I am far from the “mainstream” of the “Christian” churches.
That is why this is so important.
The Torah is the written down version of the oral traditions.
If something can be found that predates the Torah, it may show where the current beliefs have deviated from the original intent.

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Digit
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Post by Digit » Mon Sep 29, 2008 1:34 pm

Shalom!
Modern Judaism tends not to be as fractured as either Christianity or Islam in as much that, though there are differing groups, they do not tend to hate or fight each other.
Most hold to the same basic truisms but may differ in certain interpretations.
There are even Jews who do not accept Judaism as a religion but accept it as the basis of Jewish culture.
Some Jews who may worship with other Jews even accept Jesus as the Messiah, as did Saul/Paul for example.
Paul never saw himself as other than a Jew, and so with Jesus.

Roy.

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Post by Grumpage » Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:07 pm

He divulged few details lest he compromise the effort. He would say only that the search is being carried out in North, South and Central America, Israel and England, and that success appeared within reach.

"If there is a possibility, as the rumors say...

He, like most other scholars involved, has met people who know of people who supposedly have pages. But the leads invariably end with people who refuse to talk.
I'm not holding my breath.

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Post by kbs2244 » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:41 am

Digit:
I was always intrigued by the black, “primitive” Jews found on the South east coast of Africa.
I first found out about them while investigating the idea of what I now believe was a pretty common 3 year trip around Africa by various Middle Eastern cultures.
They were obviously not Hebrews and I understood they were called “primitive Jews” because they observed all the laws and holidays common to the time of Solomon, but nothing that had been added since.
The spot where they are would have been a good seasonal resting and restocking place.
To my knowledge, no corresponding group has been found on the west coast where the second wintering spot would have been.

Modern Judaism has become so persuasive that I believe some group even sent missionaries down there to “get them up to speed.”

But I guess my point to RS was that I believe you can be a practicing Jew in the religious sense, without the Torah traditions.
This is in the same sense that I feel I can be a practicing Christian without all the traditions added on since the 3rd century.

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Digit
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Post by Digit » Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:13 am

Aliyah, the right of all Jews to live in Israel KB is extended to all those born of a Jewish mother, plus certain other categories.
This is so whether you are black, blue, or candy striped.
The original Jews of ancient Israel were Semites, western European Jews are not, Jews have been 'gathered' into Israel from Arabic and African states since the 1950s.
I would doubt that the Shuls would accept as part of their congregation those who did not follow the general concepts of the Torah, but in more 'advanced' communities that might be so.
Many people, like myself, will claim Jewish heritage and even Aliyah, without practising the religion in full or even at all.

Roy.

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Post by pattylt » Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:09 am

I am a total atheist, yet still consider myself a Jew. Yes, it does create internal conflicts but I can not change what I feel I am. I also have discovered that my atheism is much more accepted by my still believing Jewish relatives than other atheists are accepted by their believing relatives.

Most of my relatives just ask what pork tastes like.
I always like a dog so long as he isn't spelled backward.

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Post by Digit » Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:39 am

Hi Patty. I am not an atheist neither do I follow my Jewish upbringing, yet like you I consider myself a Jew.
I cannot now recall the the exact quote nor its author, but it runs something like this...
'Whilst there is anti Semitism I will stand up and declare, I am a Jew!'
That about sums up my viewpoint.

Roy.

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Post by kbs2244 » Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:53 am

I can agree with all that.
I guess I was trying to say you can be a Jew by religion without being a Hebrew by birth.
Or believing all that is in the Torah.
Like many religions that get into every aspect of a persons life and also become the pervasive religion of an area, it becomes a culture.
It is true all around the Earth.
Then you can be a product of that culture without being of that religion.
Or visa versa.

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