Neanderthal Admixture

The Old World is a reference to those parts of Earth known to Europeans before the voyages of Christopher Columbus; it includes Europe, Asia and Africa.

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Cognito
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Neanderthal Admixture

Post by Cognito » Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:35 pm

Ah, yes, better living through (Bio)chemistry. Here is an article that I missed earlier regarding a possible H. neanderthalis contributed gene to the H. sapiens pool:

http://www.biochemsoctrans.org/bst/033/ ... htm#CITE29

For those who cross their eyes attempting to read through a scientific article, just stick with the headlines. Yes, it is too late to yell, "Everyone out of the pool!" since somebody was obviously dipping their stick in the pool ages ago. :shock:

BTW, this is a non-mtDNA remnant. Basing conclusions on the analysis of mtDNA which is only passed from female to female is faulty science at its best because, as the article states:

"... the only DNA evidence directly available has been mitochondrial and, although this clearly indicates no contribution to the H. sapiens mitochondrial genome, one cannot generalize from this limited information to autosomal loci, particularly for genes that may have been subjected to selection pressure."

Shall we add this one to a further investigation of FOXP2 and the D brain Allele? :D
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Minimalist
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Post by Minimalist » Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:14 pm

So..... if BOTH HNS and HSS drew the bulk of the DNA from HE, how would we know this without an HE dna specimen?[/quote]
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Post by Ishtar » Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:53 pm

Dear Mr Cognito

I wish refer to your letter of the 8th inst, about which I am scandalised.

Do you truly mean to imply that cross-species shenanigans took place among my ancestors? Because I can assure you, sir, that no such disgusting event ever occurred and that our pedigree is spotless.

We are pure blooded HSSs who arrived on the Mayflower. Our founding father, Ebeneezer Slagg, was a pillar of Bostonian society although you will probably know him as the inventor of the midwifery.

Admittedly, according to family mythology, there was, back in the mists of time, a certain Great Aunt Nellie who had a bit too much fruit punch at the Christmas office party of 40,209 BC. She disappeared for some time, apparently. And no-one, to this day, is really sure what happened - except that she spent the rest of her life with a permanent grin slapped across her face. But anyway, we don't talk about that.

Otherwise, my family has always been very particular about who they had it off with, which is why I can assure that there are no Africans or apes in our 'admixture' as you put it, and there's been no strange species' sticks in our pool.

I shall expect your apology for such a slur forthwith. If not, you will be hearing from my lawyers.

Yours sincerely,







Image
Ms G Slagg



.

Minimalist
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Post by Minimalist » Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:15 am

Would Ms. Slagg like to go out for a drink?

:D
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Post by pattylt » Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:05 am

Better offer her fruit punch. Sounds like that works.
I always like a dog so long as he isn't spelled backward.

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Post by Ishtar » Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:33 am

I’m sure that’s the idea, Patti.

Sadly, two glasses of Rioja and poor Glenda is anybody’s – but I didn’t realise her problem was hereditary.



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Cognito
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HE

Post by Cognito » Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:28 am

So..... if BOTH HNS and HSS drew the bulk of the DNA from HE, how would we know this without an HE dna specimen?
KB, that is an excellent question that the article addressed with the following comment:

"The H1 clade has a normal linkage disequilibrium structure and is the only haplotype found in all populations except those derived from Caucasians. The H2 haplotype is the minor haplotype in Caucasian populations and is not found in other populations."

Simply put, the H2 haplotype is restricted to Caucasian populations which originated in Europe and is not found outside of Europe. What's so special about Europe? Neanderthals. If H2 would have originated with H. erectus we would expect to find that mutation in Africa, Asia, etc.

Your point, although, is well taken. Multiregionalists such as Wolpoff argue that there really aren't species differences between the three groups in question and that they could successully interbreed. In other words, they view those groups as:

H. sapiens erectus
H. sapiens neanderthalis
H. sapiens sapiens


Since erectus was apparently boating to Flores 800Kya our standard interpretation of ancient intelligence may be flawed. Those javelins found in Germany which were dated to 400Kya are very sophisticated front-weighted projectiles carved from spruce and represent considerable forethought and design. Who ever made those was no dummy! :shock:
Last edited by Cognito on Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Cognito
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Mrs Slagg

Post by Cognito » Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:55 am

Otherwise, my family has always been very particular about who they had it off with, which is why I can assure that there are no Africans or apes in our 'admixture' as you put it, and there's been no strange species' sticks in our pool.

I shall expect your apology for such a slur forthwith. If not, you will be hearing from my lawyers.
Dear Ms. Slagg,

Please accept my apology for the comments made in my previous post which you apparently misinterpreted as a defamation of your family name. My intent was simply to point out that a good walk in the bush, or dip in the pool, will cure headaches and other maladies which may afflict those of the female persuasion (smoking afterwards is optional). As such, please consider my comments more of a medical recommendation.

Regards,
Cognito


PS: Please report to my room to further this discussion! :D
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Post by Minimalist » Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:08 am

Simply put, the H2 haplotype is restricted to Caucasian populations which originated in Europe and is not found outside of Europe.

So.....then.....(stick with me) if H2 ONLY arose in Europe but Out of Africa claims that HSS arose in Africa and did not interbreed with HNS then.....why is there still H2? Shouldn't it have died out with its non interbreeding originators?

:lol:
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Post by kbs2244 » Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:18 pm

Cog:
Please do not pull me into this type of thing.
It is way over my head.
I have a hard enough time getting my head around things in a “historical” context.
When the conversation gets to millions and billions BP I kind of fade in to a corner with a strong Gin and Tonic.
You can find some interesting things of the other gender there.
kbs2244

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Cognito
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Party-time

Post by Cognito » Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:36 pm

Cog:
Please do not pull me into this type of thing. It is way over my head.
I have a hard enough time getting my head around things in a “historical” context. When the conversation gets to millions and billions BP I kind of fade in to a corner with a strong Gin and Tonic.
Alright, KB. How 'bout this?

25 to 40,000 years ago Neanderthals and Sapiens were warming each other on those cold winter nights in Europe.
Some evidence of their late night partying is still with us in European nuclear DNA (much to the chagrin of many).


Alright, let's go drinking! :D
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Post by Minimalist » Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:24 pm

Let's keep the discussion going. Homo Erectus on the move.

http://sciencenow.sciencemag.org/cgi/co ... 008/1007/3
Over a million years ago, a band of early humans left their stone tools and two front teeth near a stream in southwest China. For decades, the precise age of the fossils has remained a mystery, leaving open a central question in paleontology: How quickly did our human ancestors reach China after leaving Africa? Now, thanks to advanced dating techniques, scientists may finally have the answer.

Chinese paleontologists discovered the two incisors in 1965 and the relatively simple stone tools in 1973 in the Yuanmou Basin. The teeth came from a hominin, the group that includes humans and our exclusive ancestors, and might be from the species Homo erectus, a direct ancestor of humans that may have been the first human to spread beyond Africa about 1.8 million years ago.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

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Digit
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Post by Digit » Fri Oct 10, 2008 2:01 am

25 to 40,000 years ago Neanderthals and Sapiens were warming each other on those cold winter nights in Europe.
Some evidence of their late night partying is still with us in European nuclear DNA (much to the chagrin of many).
See! Told you, Stonehenge was used as a centre for Raves.
(See other thread).

Roy.

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Post by kbs2244 » Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:15 pm

Only 40,000 years BP?
I can handle that!

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john
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Blonde on Blonde

Post by john » Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:24 pm

Glenda -

1.) Parthenogenesis.

Not only explains the "virgin" birth of Mary,

But a whole bunch of other stuff, also.

Not going to get into that, at this point.

2). Now, to take N. American hummingbirds - a genus of small birds -

For example.

The only genetic difference between "species" is a tiny shift in secondary sexual characteristics

i.e. Distribution of plumage color.

In theory, any could mate with any, although I have not seen

Any thorough research on this.

Bottom line: if you have in your heart a tall, dark man, you

Are not likely to mate with a short, pale man, despite

The fact that both unions, biologically, would create offspring.

3). No one, and I mean zip nada no one has proved to me that Hominids developed along separate, species specific lines. I would argue that we are all subspecies. In terms of genetic compatibility, it amounts to the equasion of genetic drift/compatibility vs. - for lack of a better aesthetic -
who is the most beautiful or handsome (sexual identification variable) on
the block.

That in itself drives genetic drift.

However, having said that, I will make the point that

No members of the human genus, presently,

Are unable to bear children together,

No matter their genetic heritage.

And looking backward through the telescope

I find it hard to believe that Homo n. and Homo s. started off

Being genetically incompatible.

Rather, they were kinda like dogs and coyotes.

The Big Daddy, or Mother, of course,

Being Homo e.




hoka hey

john
"Man is a marvellous curiosity. When he is at his very, very best he is sort of a low-grade nickel-plated angel; at his worst he is unspeakable, unimaginable; and first and last and all the time he is a sarcasm."

Mark Twain

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