Giza

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Beagle
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Giza

Post by Beagle » Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:55 am

This topic should work for all 3 pyramids and the Sphinx. I'll kick off a question.

Why, if the plateau is a necropolis, did the Egyptians use a lion instead of a jackal as guardian?


http://members.aol.com/egyptart/list.html

Minimalist
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Post by Minimalist » Sat Jun 10, 2006 11:42 am

Well, Robert Bauval's idea is that when it was built (10,500 BC) it was the Age of Leo and a lion was completely appropriate as an equinoctal marker.

Of course, mainstream Egyptology has a problem with that theory. As a matter of fact, Zahi Hawass can work himself into an absolute lather over it. :wink:
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

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Post by Beagle » Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:48 pm

Well, yeah, that's a theory all right but aside from all the usual criticisms something else just doesn't make sense.

Why in the year 10,500BC would a culture look up at a group of stars and decide that it looked like a lion. I think the astrological constellations as we know them today came much later.

It's possible but seems pretty coincidental.

The Egyptians did have a lion deity, but it is represented as a pair of lions.
Which reminds me of a few theories I've heard about another Sphinx being buried in the sands.

This thread is reminding me that Egyptology is not my favorite archaeological subject. 8)

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Post by Minimalist » Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:49 pm

I think the astrological constellations as we know them today came much later.


Perhaps they were 're-discovered' later?
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

Beagle
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Post by Beagle » Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:54 pm

Indeed. As I said, anything's possible. In any event, that lion thing has always bugged me.

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Post by Minimalist » Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:04 pm

Beagle wrote:Indeed. As I said, anything's possible. In any event, that lion thing has always bugged me.

You and Bauval, both.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

Beagle
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Post by Beagle » Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:52 pm

In regard to an earlier thought you had Minimalist - I just checked and there is strong evidence that Egypt was importing lumber from Byblos in 3,000BC.

They would have needed it for everday fuel I imagine.

Isotopic studies of charcoal remains can identify the type of tree that it came from - if ZH has allowed any of that.

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Post by Beagle » Sat Jun 10, 2006 2:02 pm

http://www.middleeast.com/byblos.htm

As usual, I didn't post a link. Here it is. :roll:

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Post by Minimalist » Sat Jun 10, 2006 3:20 pm

The pharaohs of the Old Kindgom needed the cedar and other wood for shipbuilding, tomb construction and funerary ritual.


Sure as hell does not sound as if they were importing wood for fuel, does it?
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

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Post by Minimalist » Sat Jun 10, 2006 5:51 pm

I found this while noodling around on the subject of the Ancient Egyptian economy.

Perhaps our Ma'at friends could toss in an opinion or two?


http://nefertiti.iwebland.com/economy/index.html
Wind energy was exploited only by ships and even there quite inefficiently: The square sails used enabled only sailing before the wind. The Egyptians were fortunate in that the Nile flowed from south to north. The prevailing winds were northerly and sufficed to blow the ships upriver. They were let to drift downriver with furled sails. But often a destination could only be reached through rowing which required large crews.
Fire was needed for cooking and baking food, smelting and casting metal, burning pottery and very rarely for making bricks. For the working of metals high temperatures had to be achieved and this was done quite possibly with charcoal. No coal was available in ancient times and wood was not very plentiful. One suspects that ordinary fires were fed with any dry vegetable or animal matter that was at hand.
The heat of the sun on the other hand was put to very good use in the production of mud bricks, which were the perfect building material in a practically rainless country like Egypt.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

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Post by Beagle » Sun Jun 11, 2006 6:42 am

http://www.hallofmaat.com/modules.php?n ... cle&sid=93


Here is a link to an article posted by Kathleen Reece in the Scoch thread. My comments are there. Good read.

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Post by Beagle » Sun Jun 11, 2006 6:36 pm

Interestlingly, it seems like the walls of Giza are beginning to crumble just a little.

I remember that not so long ago (15-20 yrs.) that any suggestion that the Giza plateau was not what the archaeological establishment said it was branded you as a fringe nut.

And now - who's cozied up to the Edgar Cayce Foundation? :wink:

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Post by Minimalist » Sun Jun 11, 2006 7:26 pm

You know what pisses me off about Egyptologists, almost more than any other class of scholars, is the certainty with which they espouse their theories. They are a little like arch and his goddamn bible...although granted they have done a lot more studying than the bible thumpers.

So they sit there and pontificate that the Great Pyramid was built in 20 years, using sleds to move the stones, and a big ramp to get to the top.
I heard one, Bayer or Beyer or something, the other day claim that the near perfect alignment to true north of the Great Pyramid was acheived by drawing a line from a couple of stars to the ground. The pyramid deviates by less that 1/20th of a degree. Was there a demonstration of such ability? No.

There are 2.5 million stone blocks in the Great Pyramid averaging the weight of a car. The math is instructive.

2,500,000 blocks divided by 20 years = 125,000 stones per year
125,000 stones divided by 365 days = 342 stones per day
342 stones divided by 24 hours/day = 14.25 stones per hour
14.25 stones divided by 60 minutes'hour = 1 stone every 4 minutes...rounded off.

That's working 24 hours per day, 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year for 20 years. Which presumes that they never took a day off. Never had an accident. Never stopped to eat, drink or take a dump. They worked through the night....in the dark or, at best, by torchlight. If they worked in shifts, it multiplies the number of men involved by two or three depending on how many shifts you want to give them. In addition to the guys actually humping the stones into place, there was a whole other army of workers quarrying the stones out of the ground, shaping them, etc. Then there would have been a whole logistical train to feed and house these workers.

And, at the same time they were doing this, they were also building the ramp which, in and of itself, would have been a construction project even more daunting than the pyramid! All of this to build a tomb for a man who was not gauranteed to even live for 20 years. Not knowing at what age any given pharoah would have attained the throne it seems as if it would not have been a foregone conclusion that pharoah would have lived long enough to even get to be buried in his pyramid.

I'd love to see Hawass and Lehner and some of their colleagues organize a test in which, using the technology they claim the ancients had, they give us a demonstration of how it was done. Give them a couple of weeks to get their bearings and then let's see if they can match that one stone per 4 minute schedule.
Last edited by Minimalist on Mon Jun 12, 2006 2:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

Beagle
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Post by Beagle » Sun Jun 11, 2006 7:34 pm

Maybe this is why we rarely talk about Egyptology :)

Sometimes we get to read a thought or theory from someone that is not trying to pound a square peg into a round hole.

Of course the last two that I have been half-way impressed with have been geologists - not archaeologists.

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Post by Minimalist » Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:49 am

Well....we should talk about it.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

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