Contemporary Great Pyramid Document

[Minimalist]

You know, Circ, I've heard that claim about pyramid ramps before but when I do a search on Google Images for "remains of pyramid ramps" I get a lot of artist renditions and charts but not much in the way of actual archaeological ramps. I can do a search for Flavius Silva's ramp at Masada and be instantly rewarded with a pile of them.

So while I agree that the ramp would be removed at the completion of the project but how far would they take the debris? I'm not going to buy that they put in on board ships and dumped it in the Mediterranean. Frankly, the most logical thing to have done with it was to dump it back in the hole they dug for the quarry.... but they didn't do that either.

For the record I do not think they used Chinook helicopters supplied by aliens but that means that somehow they built a ramp of some sort with the early bronze age tools they had. And I am mystified.

[Minimalist]

Which document, Alexia?

[circumspice]

He, or she, is just advertising Min...


Re: Contemporary Great Pyramid Document
Post 13 Dec 2019, 05:17

I want more information regarding this historic document, If anyone had more information please share, It would be really grateful.
Whimsical Exhibits is a one-stop solution provider and the best exhibition stand design companyin the Netherlands. We possess a rich experience of more than years in the exhibition industry.
Visit: http://www.whimsicalexhibits.eu/

[circumspice]

You know, Circ, I've heard that claim about pyramid ramps before but when I do a search on Google Images for "remains of pyramid ramps" I get a lot of artist renditions and charts but not much in the way of actual archaeological ramps. I can do a search for Flavius Silva's ramp at Masada and be instantly rewarded with a pile of them.

So while I agree that the ramp would be removed at the completion of the project but how far would they take the debris? I'm not going to buy that they put in on board ships and dumped it in the Mediterranean. Frankly, the most logical thing to have done with it was to dump it back in the hole they dug for the quarry.... but they didn't do that either.

For the record I do not think they used Chinook helicopters supplied by aliens but that means that somehow they built a ramp of some sort with the early bronze age tools they had. And I am mystified.

I found one actual photograph... The photo that I have attached is the blurry copy because the good copy is too large of a file to attach on this post...

[circumspice]

Here's an article about the remnants of a ramp discovered at an alabaster quarry in the Eastern Desert. It is dated to the 4th Dynasty, specifically to Khufu's reign.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/phys.org/n ... -egypt.amp

[circumspice]

You know, Circ, I've heard that claim about pyramid ramps before but when I do a search on Google Images for "remains of pyramid ramps" I get a lot of artist renditions and charts but not much in the way of actual archaeological ramps. I can do a search for Flavius Silva's ramp at Masada and be instantly rewarded with a pile of them.

So while I agree that the ramp would be removed at the completion of the project but how far would they take the debris? I'm not going to buy that they put in on board ships and dumped it in the Mediterranean. Frankly, the most logical thing to have done with it was to dump it back in the hole they dug for the quarry.... but they didn't do that either.

For the record I do not think they used Chinook helicopters supplied by aliens but that means that somehow they built a ramp of some sort with the early bronze age tools they had. And I am mystified.

The article that I read stated that the bulk of the ramp materials were reused for building the pyramids that followed after the construction of the Great Pyramid, then the remnants were finally disposed of by dumping the rubble into the quarry that is located approximately 300 meters from the Great Pyramid.

[Minimalist]

That's nice but did they happen to say what happened to the next pile of ramp remains? At some point you have a third pyramid built and the remnants of the ramp for that one had to go somewhere.

I agree that the photo is hazy but even with that limitation it is pretty easy to see that it is not at the pyramid which is in the background. We know they excavated ramps out of the quarries. That is not the question. The question is did they then build ramps nearly 500 feet into the air to move the blocks?

[circumspice]

That's nice but did they happen to say what happened to the next pile of ramp remains? At some point you have a third pyramid built and the remnants of the ramp for that one had to go somewhere.

I agree that the photo is hazy but even with that limitation it is pretty easy to see that it is not at the pyramid which is in the background. We know they excavated ramps out of the quarries. That is not the question. The question is did they then build ramps nearly 500 feet into the air to move the blocks?

I seriously doubt that there has ever been a 500 foot high, straight run ramp ever built in the history of the world Min. Spiral ramps or switchback ramps, maybe.

I probably didn't phrase it very well... I meant to say that the original ramps were probably reused as ramps, in succession, in the building of the next two large pyramids & probably on all the minor & satellite pyramids too. Just dismantled & moved to the next building site. There was bound to be some attrition & whatever remained after the final building phases were completed were either dumped in the nearby quarries or reused again in another local building project... The ancient Egyptians were notorious for recycling & reusing building materials. The low hanging fruit, so to speak.

[Minimalist]

https://www.cheops-pyramide.ch/khufu-py ... ories.html


Of course this guy is pushing his own theory of a wooden framework in which crews could pull the stones up by walking down instead of up. I think he suggests that this could be done easily.

Two obvious problems here.

One. Even in the 4th Dynasty Egypt was notably devoid of trees. They weren't big on wooden structures.

Two. His calculations of how easy it would be remind me of the adage "everything is easy for the man who doesn't have to do it himself!"

[circumspice]

https://www.cheops-pyramide.ch/khufu-py ... ories.html


Of course this guy is pushing his own theory of a wooden framework in which crews could pull the stones up by walking down instead of up. I think he suggests that this could be done easily.

Two obvious problems here.

One. Even in the 4th Dynasty Egypt was notably devoid of trees. They weren't big on wooden structures.

Two. His calculations of how easy it would be remind me of the adage "everything is easy for the man who doesn't have to do it himself!"

lmao! I like that adage, it's right on point!

I think that throughout ALL of Egypt's human history there has been a lack of trees. That said, there's been a simmering or smouldering debate about some dates associated with several time periods in ancient Egyptian history. It's called the "Old Wood" debate. This disagreement comes from carbon dating giving unexpectedly older dates for some samples of wood & charcoal. The dissenting view said that because of the ancient Egyptian penchant for the reuse of materials, the dates that are in contention cannot be considered reliable...

So we have 2 issues here. First, Ancient Egyptians are well known for conserving resources by the practice of recycling & reuse of materials. They were essentially conserving not only whatever material it was (wood, stone, whatever) they were also conserving time, manpower & funds. Second, why wouldn't they reuse something that is conveniently right there where it's needed? (until it's no longer needed or until it's used up) Why wouldn't Khafre make use of the ramp materials from his father's pyramid for his own? And then the same for Menkare after him...

We'll probably never have definitive answers to these questions.

[Minimalist]

I recall reading an essay by an engineer who indicated that in order to support the weight of the stones and men pulling them the ramp envisioned ( a straight to the top ramp) would have been an even larger building project than the pyramid itself but would have to have been built of materials which would not shift and collapse under the weight. The math that the Egyptologists insist on for the pyramids is already daunting to the point of lunacy. Adding the construction of such a ramp and the subsequent dismantling of it merely adds to the problem by several orders of magnitude.

https://books.google.com/books?id=qYj9w ... id&f=false

I can't copy and paste from Google Books. Read what happened when Japanese engineers tried to build a 1/3 scale model of the pyramid in the 70's.

[circumspice]

Min... really??? You're linking a book by Sylvia Browne??? If you go back one page from the page you linked, she cites Eric von Daniken as an authoritative source... She claims that an extraterrestrial civilization taught the ancients how to build the various monuments that we are puzzled about... She also states that the Ark of the Covenant will be found in a hidden chamber under the Sphinx... Unbelievable... Have you gone over to the dark side?

[Minimalist]

The Japanese experiment was real enough, which was the whole point of quoting that passage. There was a Nat Geo special on it many years ago and they utterly failed.

Far more recently Mark Lehrner claimed that he would use ancient technologies to remove and carve an obelisk. He ended up using jackhammers and trucks.

Just once I would like to see these people put their money where their mouths are.

There was a British guy, an expert in ancient technologies, who demonstrated how you could use a copper tube and a bow to drill a hole in stone using sand as the cutting agent. He drilled a perfect hole but it took forever. He also showed how a simple granite scraper could be used to smooth a limestone block to a flat side but again, when you are talking about 2.5 million blocks the time factor gets in the way.

[circumspice]

Ok Min... This needs to be said...

You act as if the approximate estimated number of stones used in the construction of the Great Pyramid is canon, a figure to be trotted out for every discussion. The truth of the matter is that nobody knows even an approximation of how many stones were actually used because nobody knows exactly how much of the base of that pyramid is composed of solid bedrock. Yet for some reason you choose to doubt & sneer at every other proposed 'fact' about the construction of it. What's up with that Min? You use that figure in all of your arguments... pointing out how impossible all the other yada yada yada is when confronted with a figure of 2.5 MILLION blocks to quarry, shape, transport & then put into place... Come now... You can't place all your faith in one 'fact' & then discount ALL the others. That's hypocritical. Another 'fact' that you take as canon: 20 years... All because a Greek historian named Herodotus & a Greek priest named Manetho 'said so'. They were as far removed in time from the proposed events they were recording as we are from their time...

Let's play Devil's Advocate... What if it took them 100 years to build the Great Pyramid? Or even 200 years? Several of the great cathedrals in Europe took over 100 years to complete. York Minster Cathedral took 252 years to complete. Who's to say how long it really took to build the Great Pyramid? Aspects of pyramid construction wasn't ever discussed in any surviving accounts. That doesn't mean it wasn't discussed, just that none of the discussions have survived to this day. What we have is the word of a Greek historian, a Greek priest & Victorian/Edwardian historians who were even further removed in time from those proposed events.

Where does that leave us? We don't know with any degree of certainty how it was built, how long it took to build & by whom it was originally commissioned. We have damned few hints that lead us to believe that Khufu was the king who had it built, one being graffiti in a place that was never meant to be seen by the public & Merer's logbook. Merer's logbook mentions the public name of Khufu's pyramid & he mentions the name of Khufu's half brother who was overseeing some part of the construction. What if Khufu was only the king who happened to be alive at the time when it was finally completed? According to tradition Khufu was a self aggrandizing megalomaniac so he could possibly have taken credit for something that took several generations to build.

I have a myriad of questions concerning the construction of all of the major pyramids & I hope that I live long enough to see them answered. What I am trying to do is keep an open mind about it.

[Minimalist]

Actually quite a lot of study went into that and there are variations, of course. Flinders-Petrie estimated 4 million blocks, for instance. But for the most part the range is between 2 and 2.8 million stones which is significant but until someone comes up with a reasonable explanation of how they managed to get even one stone up some kind of ramp/ other mechanism it almost doesn't matter. The damn things are there, staring us in the face, and the explanation for how they got there is an engineering mystery.

Of course, there is the group who say that stones weren't used and that the Egyptians invented concrete long before the Romans!