Roman DNA

[Simon21]

Grandly and incompetently called Man and Impact in the Americas (appalling English) this great work unfortunately forgot to put in anything about central and South America and large parts of Canada.

I intentionally did not include materials from the Odawa, Pottawatomi, and Ojibwe,
as their mide handle those;
materials from the Zuni, Hopi, and Navajo were also excluded,
for the same reason.

Ah I see , so the book should be called - ts the "Impact of some men on some parts of the Americas - the parts I know about" Bit misleading old fruit.

For South America,
Not much survived the Inca conquest.

Really? But er going by yur own words the Incas survived

For Central America,
I included what Mayan materials were available,
the Mixtec materials were not available to me at that time.
The Aztec materials were excluded as they were late immigrants to the Valley of Mexico.

[/quote]

But the book is entitled I"Man and Impact in the Americas" not "Man and Impact in the Americas, leaving out half the Americas"

And er the Aztecs, did they not migrate from somewhere wlse, like the Grondine's did?

[MichelleH]

Topic locked.

[MichelleH]

And now this topic is open again.

[AndyB1580]

Hello. This is my first post here.

I have some personal family DNA evidence that seems to support this claim. It turns out that I have a very rare y-DNA lineage that was designated J2a4d (M-319) when I was tested and has been re-designated several times since.

Family history history research traced my family as far back as Grimsby and Lincoln in Lincolnshire, England in the oldest surviving parish records.

However, my yDNA lineage is extremely rare and originated in bronze age Crete according to published research.

Furthermore, my particular lineage seems to have diverged from the closest genetic relatives around 2000 years ago. 2000 years ago suggests the time of the Roman occupation of Britain.

Following this evidence, I found that there were two nearby Roman forts in Lincoln and York and that Grimsby had been a Roman port.

Then I looked into what Roman legions may have been stationed there and found that Legion VI was among the legions that were once stationed there. Furthermore, Legion VI conscripted archers from Crete.

Other records indicated that after 20 years service, soldiers were granted plots of land around Lincoln, Lincolnshire.

All of these facts, taken as a whole, seemed to suggest that my ancestor came to England with the Roman army and the family remained there until migrating to America in 1650.

[circumspice]

Welcome to the board Andy!

Your family history sounds fascinating. Couple that with your Y-DNA results, it seems that you've got more genealogy info than the average person.

[Minimalist]

Hello, Andy

Generally the legions were simply the heavy infantry of the army and at least in the early days of the empire were comprised of Roman citizens, whereas the auxillia were the specialty troops, cavalry, archers, slingers, skirmishers, and were recruited from non-citizens of the empire and rewarded with citizenship after 25 years service. Cretan, along with Syrian archers, were well regarded in the Mediterranean world along with the slingers from Rhodes and the Balearics. So it is totally reasonable that a unit of archers among others would be attached to the various legions that made up the garrisons in Britannia.

[Simon21]

Hello. This is my first post here.

I have some personal family DNA evidence that seems to support this claim. It turns out that I have a very rare y-DNA lineage that was designated J2a4d (M-319) when I was tested and has been re-designated several times since.

Family history history research traced my family as far back as Grimsby and Lincoln in Lincolnshire, England in the oldest surviving parish records.

However, my yDNA lineage is extremely rare and originated in bronze age Crete according to published research.

Furthermore, my particular lineage seems to have diverged from the closest genetic relatives around 2000 years ago. 2000 years ago suggests the time of the Roman occupation of Britain.

Following this evidence, I found that there were two nearby Roman forts in Lincoln and York and that Grimsby had been a Roman port.

Then I looked into what Roman legions may have been stationed there and found that Legion VI was among the legions that were once stationed there. Furthermore, Legion VI conscripted archers from Crete.

Other records indicated that after 20 years service, soldiers were granted plots of land around Lincoln, Lincolnshire.

All of these facts, taken as a whole, seemed to suggest that my ancestor came to England with the Roman army and the family remained there until migrating to America in 1650.

You need to be careful about taking things at face value. Just because someone, or even a group, was recruited from Crete does not necessarily mean they were native Cretans - Crete had active ports many of its people could be descended from Egyptians, Syrians, etc.

[Simon21]

Hello, Andy

Generally the legions were simply the heavy infantry of the army and at least in the early days of the empire were comprised of Roman citizens, whereas the auxillia were the specialty troops, cavalry, archers, slingers, skirmishers, and were recruited from non-citizens of the empire and rewarded with citizenship after 25 years service. Cretan, along with Syrian archers, were well regarded in the Mediterranean world along with the slingers from Rhodes and the Balearics. So it is totally reasonable that a unit of archers among others would be attached to the various legions that made up the garrisons in Britannia.

Indeed and inscriptions from HW allude to Syrians etc. It is a bizarrely controversial area however. When Mary Beard pointed out that some of the huge Roman Garrison may have been black, she was subjected to hysterical abuse from the white is always right brigade who apparently knew intimately the body colours of the roman army.

[Minimalist]

Yeah, well, the Roman Empire at its greatest extent:



would have come into contact with Nubia along the Nile and doubtless there was some cross-pollination in Egypt itself but the Sahara desert would have been a pretty effective barrier to any sort of regular contact with sub-Saharan Africa and the Bedouin were living in between. I'm sure there was the occasional recruit but I really can't see the opportunity for any large scale recruitment.

[Simon21]

Yeah, well, the Roman Empire at its greatest extent:



would have come into contact with Nubia along the Nile and doubtless there was some cross-pollination in Egypt itself but the Sahara desert would have been a pretty effective barrier to any sort of regular contact with sub-Saharan Africa and the Bedouin were living in between. I'm sure there was the occasional recruit but I really can't see the opportunity for any large scale recruitment.

Except the Phoenicians circled the continent and possibly had trading posts on the African coasts. The Sahara is not a particularly effective barrier, it has trading routes etc and of course there is no reason why black africans could not have made ships etc. Recruitment is not likely to have been large but we cannot really tell.

Certainly there is no reason to suppose that the Roman Garrison of Britain for 400 years were all snowy white.

[kbs2244]

This thread has such a convoluted history I have forgotten why we are discussing this.
Does anyone remember?

[Cognito]

This thread has such a convoluted history I have forgotten why we are discussing this.
Does anyone remember?

KB, the answer is obvious ... we all need a little more genealogical research to determine why we blog so much.

As for me, I'm part Neanderthal according to my ex. That explains a lot.

[Minimalist]

Except the Phoenicians circled the continent and possibly had trading posts on the African coasts.

So did the Carthaginians. So what? The Romans exterminated them, too. The auxillia system started with Augustus and continued for centuries. It underwent many changes but at least initially there was a certain ethnic basis to the various units that were recruited. You wouldn't recruit "Cretan Archers" or "Rhodian Slingers" from some place other than Crete or Rhodes.

[Simon21]

Meaning there was regular traffic between black Africa and the Mediterranean where the Romans lived.

And there is no reason to assume black Roman s could not have been citizens and therefore could have joined the legions

[Simon21]

This thread has such a convoluted history I have forgotten why we are discussing this.
Does anyone remember?

It has been claimed that the Welsh border can be defined in the DNA of those who live either side of it.