The Old World is a reference to those parts of Earth known to Europeans before the voyages of Christopher Columbus; it includes Europe, Asia and Africa.
Modern humans arose only once, in Africa, about 200,000 years ago. They then spread across Eurasia some time after 60,000 years ago, replacing whatever indigenous populations they met with no interbreeding. This is the ‘Out of Africa’ model, as it’s commonly known. In the 1990s, the hypothesis found widespread acceptance by palaeoanthropologists, especially when the first analyses of Neanderthal DNA seemed to indicate that Neanderthals and modern humans did not interbreed. But this popular idea is in need of revision, particularly given the number of important findings across Asia over the past few decades.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.
You've got it, KB. If it was sterile we wouldn't know it happened and we would not see neanderthal genes showing up in hss dna outisde of Africa but not inside of it.
Absolutely true. Neanderthal as well as Denisovan genes are included in the H sapiens genome. Most likely H erectus also, but we don't have any material to test yet and it probably would look very similar to our genetics anyway.
I still think this whole "species" argument is overblown.
Min, I agree with you that we are a latter day H erectus model. The Multiregional Hypothesis states that there was always enough gene flow between isolated groups to keep us in the same species.
Apparently there was more than just gene flow. Ideas seemed to flow both ways too. In my opinion, if it was as indicated by the DNA evidence that it was usually the females who left their home groups to intermarry with other groups, then the 'first farmers' were most probably females bringing their seeds, farm tools & knowledge with them to their new home. Of course that was many millennia later than the time period we're discussing. But still...
"Nothing discloses real character like the use of power. It is easy for the weak to be gentle. Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power. This is the supreme test." ~ Robert G. Ingersoll
"Damn with faint praise, assent with civil leer, and, without sneering, teach the rest to sneer." ~ Alexander Pope
You're saying that even that long ago women were treated as trade goods?
You may be right but I always had a higher opinion of early man, Circ!
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.
Minimalist wrote:You're saying that even that long ago women were treated as trade goods?
You may be right but I always had a higher opinion of early man, Circ!
When have men ever missed a chance to dominate and/or limit females? Being given the status of trade goods infers some type of perceived value... Which I doubt existed. You really ought to try looking at it from the 'other' side Min, even though it may be a little uncomfortable... The noble savage? Yeah, right.
Edit: Take HN for example... Milford Wolpoff stated clearly & with certainty that females lacked the status that males held because there were NEVER any grave goods associated with female burials. (just toss them in a hole & cover them with dirt...)
"Nothing discloses real character like the use of power. It is easy for the weak to be gentle. Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power. This is the supreme test." ~ Robert G. Ingersoll
"Damn with faint praise, assent with civil leer, and, without sneering, teach the rest to sneer." ~ Alexander Pope
When have men ever missed a chance to dominate and/or limit females? Being given the status of trade goods infers some type of perceived value... Which I doubt existed. You really ought to try looking at it from the 'other' side Min, even though it may be a little uncomfortable... The noble savage? Yeah, right.
I would posit that young women of childbearing age generally had value for continuation of the tribe as well as young children. They were the ones who, for the most part, survived the raids. Owning slaves is a symbol of status and they can be traded for others commodities, as needed.
Noble savage? When no rules apply, nobility goes out the window.
When have men ever missed a chance to dominate and/or limit females? Being given the status of trade goods infers some type of perceived value... Which I doubt existed. You really ought to try looking at it from the 'other' side Min, even though it may be a little uncomfortable... The noble savage? Yeah, right.
I would posit that young women of childbearing age generally had value for continuation of the tribe as well as young children. They were the ones who, for the most part, survived the raids. Owning slaves is a symbol of status and they can be traded for others commodities, as needed.
Noble savage? When no rules apply, nobility goes out the window.
Except for certain civilizations like ancient Egypt, people didn't bury cows or brood mares with ceremony & grave goods... Catch my drift? Value as chattel vs value as a person are totally different.
It wasn't until much later in human history that females were accorded even a small amount of the status that men have always had.
"Nothing discloses real character like the use of power. It is easy for the weak to be gentle. Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power. This is the supreme test." ~ Robert G. Ingersoll
"Damn with faint praise, assent with civil leer, and, without sneering, teach the rest to sneer." ~ Alexander Pope
The woman who coined the term 'glass ceiling' recently died. She was the first female Navy fighter pilot. The Navy had an all female Missing Man formation do a flyover at her funeral. Quite an honor...
"Nothing discloses real character like the use of power. It is easy for the weak to be gentle. Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power. This is the supreme test." ~ Robert G. Ingersoll
"Damn with faint praise, assent with civil leer, and, without sneering, teach the rest to sneer." ~ Alexander Pope
And, had they gotten lost, they would have stopped to ask for directions!
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.
Minimalist wrote:And, had they gotten lost, they would have stopped to ask for directions!
Absolutely!!! Or at least have used a map!
"Nothing discloses real character like the use of power. It is easy for the weak to be gentle. Most people can bear adversity. But if you wish to know what a man really is, give him power. This is the supreme test." ~ Robert G. Ingersoll
"Damn with faint praise, assent with civil leer, and, without sneering, teach the rest to sneer." ~ Alexander Pope
