Hi Cogs, sorry you've had one of "those" days. We all understand that.Cognito wrote:Sorry Beags, it's been a real busy day here today with people giving me lots of excuses to fire their asses. Earlier, you mentioned that yDNA was not important in migrations. As a quick response, look here:Beags, you're missing out on yDNA R1a vis a vis India.
Cogs, when you get a chance, help me out with that one. What do you mean by "vis a vis" India?
At one time it was thought that the Brahmin caste in India was primarily made up of yDNA R1a individuals and this belief became part of the "Aryan Invasion Theory" with its overtones of superiority, now discounted. On the contrary, yDNA R1a with its origin in the Ukraine/Caucasus region, entered India as part of the dispersal migration from west to east during the late Pleistocene/early Holocene. Migrating genetic groups include men as well as women who take their cultural affinities and mythologies with them (plus lots of other mental baggage). The Brahmins, being somewhere around 33% yDNA R1a or so, certainly affected others around them with their imported beliefs.
And don't tell me that R1a originated in India or we'll need to have therapy with one of Charlie's hand axes!
OK-first things first. I was referring to mDNA when I said that it only showed where the women went. Of course you know that, and I guess I should check to see if I made a typo, but I don't have the same problem with yDNA (nuclear). The nuclear genome will eventually answer everything.
From the Wiki link you posted:
I read the first study that supports what you're saying also. This haplotype is thought to have originated in central Asia 30,000 BC.However, another study showed the R1a lineage forms around 35-45% among all the castes in North Indian population (Namita Mukherjee et al. 2001) and the Badagas of the Nilgiris making the association with the Brahmin caste more vague. A further study (Saha et al 2005) examined R1a1 in South Indian tribals and Dravidian population groups more closely, and questioned the concept of its Indo-Iranian origin. Most recently Sengupta et al. (2006) have confirmed R1a's diverse presence including even Indian tribal and lower castes (the so-called untouchables) and populations not part of the caste system. From the diversity and distinctiveness of microsatellite Y-STR variation they conclude that there must have been an independent R1a1 population in India dating back to a much earlier expansion than the Indo-Aryan migration.
That is the reason that I said in a previous post that the Indus river culture (not civilization) extended only back 10,000 yrs. Ergo, the Holocene comment. So the issue is not if this haplotype is present in India, but when did it get there. Still a question in my mind, and in other researchers according to your link.
I may have more thoughts on it later Cogs, but after a day of firing people you should kick back and have a cold one.
I'll give this more thought. Thanks.