Now that's a lot of coinage!

[Digit]

Far too independent minded for that Monk. I was once told by CEO that if he wanted the truth about something he came to see me, I might have done better if I had been otherwise.

[Barracuda]

Damn! Oddesy Marine Exploration is public traded stock. I was going to buy a few grand worth when it was about $3. It went up 56% in one day!

[Charlie Hatchett]

MADRID, Spain (AP) -- Authorities in Spain are looking into whether a U.S. company can be charged with stealing Spanish heritage for excavating colonial-era treasure from a sunken British warship.

Odyssey Marine Exploration said Friday it had discovered the ship -- along with gold and silver coins worth an estimated US$500 million -- somewhere in the Atlantic Ocean.

The treasure-hunting company would not say exactly where the ship was, citing security concerns, but said the site was outside any country's territorial waters.

Spain's Culture Ministry said it thought the statement was "suspicious," after Odyssey had sought permission to explore Spanish waters for the wreck of a British ship, according to the national news agency Efe.

Spain granted the company permission in January to search for the HMS Sussex, which sank in a 1694 storm off Gibraltar while leading a British fleet into the Mediterranean Sea for war against France.

That permission was only for exploration, however, and did not extend to extraction, the ministry said, according to Efe. Odyssey had previously been searching off the Spanish coast, but suspended operations there in 2005 after complaints from the Spanish government.

A chartered cargo jet recently landed in the U.S. to unload plastic containers packed with 500,000 coins -- expected to fetch an average of US$1,000 each from collectors and investors.

The Spanish Civil Guard, on request from the government, is investigating whether the company could be charged with theft of Spanish heritage if the haul came from a ship found in Spanish waters, Efe reported. Calls to the ministry on Sunday went unanswered.

Odyssey, based in Tampa, Florida, said it was attempting to recover the HMS Sussex under a deal with the British government -- the first such public-private arrangement for an archaeological excavation of a sovereign warship.

Historians believe the 157-foot (48-meter) warship was carrying 9 tons of gold coins to buy the loyalty of the Duke of Savoy, a potential ally in southeastern France.

Odyssey had said it believed those coins also could fetch more than US$500 million.

Under the agreement with Britain, Odyssey would share any finds with the British government. The company would keep 80 percent of the first US$45 million reaped, and about 50 percent of proceeds thereafter.

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europ ... index.html

[Sam Salmon]

Most countries count 200 miles/320 KM as their territorial limits/Economic Exclusion Zone-tough to do in a crowded old place like Euroland.

Of course the Spanish want a cut-so do dozens of other entities-but it's not likely to happen-only lawyers will benefit.

[Cognito]

Spain granted the company permission in January to search for the HMS Sussex, which sank in a 1694 storm off Gibraltar while leading a British fleet into the Mediterranean Sea for war against France.

Yup, that's Spanish heritage ... absolutely.

[Starflower]

And another claim to throw into the mix.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/T/ ... TE=DEFAULT

Everyone wants a piece of this pie.

British newspapers reported Saturday that shipping records and witnesses indicate Odyssey's ships were working in the area last year, likely looking for the Merchant Royal.

Historians say the Merchant Royal took on water and sank while transporting loot from Spain to Belgium to pay the Spanish army stationed there at the time.

The Daily Mail in London asserted that the Merchant Royal treasure was "stolen by Americans," who secretly spirited it back to the United States to keep Britain from making a claim.

Odyssey said Monday that its recovery conformed with salvage laws, the site was beyond the territorial waters or legal jurisdiction of any country and the coins were legally exported to the United States.

"We do believe that most shipwrecks that we recover, including the 'Black Swan,' will likely result in claims by other parties," the company said. "Many will be spurious claims, but we anticipate that there might be some legitimate ones as well. ... It is the opinion of our legal counsel that even if a claim is deemed to be legitimate by the courts, Odyssey should still receive title to a significant majority of the recovered goods."

Wait! I seem to remember by great great grandfather saying the family was fleeing England in the 17th century due to religious persecution with 500,000 Colonial-era silver and gold coins when the ship went down during a storm in the English channel. Now I wonder...

[kbs2244]

I love that last paragraph!
"We expect problems, but expect that in the end it will be worth it."
It reminds me of my first sales job. It was a very bureaucratic company, with all kinds of overlapping fiefdoms. I was trying to figure out what I could and could not do, and really bothering my boss.
Finally he told me "It is better to beg for forgiveness, than to wait for permission."
I think Nike's version is "Go for it."

[Starflower]

So it's official, Spain has filed a lawsuit against Odyssey.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/S/ ... TE=DEFAULT

"It's a very well established principle under Spanish, U.S. and international law that a government such as the kingdom of Spain has not abandoned its sunken ships or sunken property, and that a company like Odyssey Marine Exploration may not conduct recovery operations without authorization by the government," he said.

"The kingdom of Spain has not authorized any such operations by Odyssey, and by these legal actions it will see the return of any Spanish property Odyssey has recovered," Goold said of the claims filed Wednesday.

Odyssey Marine Exploration Inc. co-founder Greg Stemm said Thursday the company was working on a statement in response to Spain's claims.

He has previously called Spain's legal threats "absurd" and said that Odyssey would notify all claimants once it conclusively determined the ship's identity.

[Minimalist]

Money-grubbing lawyers!!!!

[kbs2244]

This may get interesting.
There is no doubt that there may be TONS of gold at the bottom of the Atlantic from lost Spanish treasure ships on their way from the Caribbean to Spain. The amount of gold mined and sent back to the Old World, by the records, is hard to believe.
Does Spain still have a claim to them? Even in international waters and after centuries?

[Sam Salmon]

This may get interesting.
There is no doubt that there may be TONS of gold at the bottom of the Atlantic from lost Spanish treasure ships on their way from the Caribbean to Spain. The amount of gold mined and sent back to the Old World, by the records, is hard to believe.
Does Spain still have a claim to them? Even in international waters and after centuries?

I doubt it.
Remember that the Spanish squandered almost all that wealth on expensive imported goods-thus beggaring their nascent empire-the same empire they then lost.
This is a still a very sore point with them-all they have left is their pride and lawyers galore

[Minimalist]

They also pissed a lot of it away on expensive foreign wars.


Hmmm....who else has that problem?

[Sam Salmon]

Hope Springs Eternal-or-Lawyers Feel The Bit Between Their Teeth/Checks Have Been Cashed

Spain targets US treasure ships


Odyssey says it kept the location secret for security reasons

A Spanish court has ordered the interception of two US boats should they leave Gibraltar, amid a row over treasure from a shipwreck.
A judge in Cadiz instructed police to capture the ships if they entered Spanish waters, Spanish media said.

Odyssey Marine Exploration, which owns the ships, recently said it had found $500m (£253m) in coins from a wreck somewhere in the Atlantic Ocean.

Spain has launched legal action amid rumours it was found off Spain.

The two ships, Odyssey Explorer and Ocean Alert, belonging to the Florida-based firm, are berthed in the British overseas territory.

The salvaged booty has already been flown back to the US from Gibraltar.


The haul has already been flown back to the US

Spanish radio said Spanish Civil Guard police would be posted off Gibraltar to prepare for the ships' departure.

Culture Minister Carmen Calvo said the judge's ruling was "magnificent news" and that the navy would help if required.

"International laws are behind us and if anything outside the law occurred it will have an answer, and what is ours will return to Spain," Ms Calvo told the Efe news agency.

Spain has launched legal action over the wreck, which has been described, speculatively, as a 17th Century vessel found off the coast of England.

However, Spain reacted to rumours that it was found off its waters by instructing lawyers to recover any "property of the Kingdom of Spain recovered from sunken ships".

Spanish media have reported that Odyssey Marine Exploration vessels had been seen with flags denoting they were undertaking marine research in Spanish waters in recent months.

Odyssey's co-founder Greg Stemm has denied any wrongdoing.

It said it had kept the location secret for security and legal reasons.