Cities of Gold

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Frank Harrist

Cities of Gold

Post by Frank Harrist » Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:00 pm

I recently read William K. Harttmann's "Cities of Gold". It's a novel, but it has some serious research in it. He is listed as one of the researchers who have contributed to the Marcos de Niza controversy. It gives new ideas on the Cibola legends and how (and maybe why) Marcos was portrayed as the bad guy/liar. It seems to me someone may have mentioned this book before. I'm sure I heard something about Marcos here. I highly recommend the book. I found it in paperback new at the Dollar General for a buck. I'd be interested to hear other opinions on it. Before antone else points this out, I will. Harttmann is not a historian, but an astronomer (astronomist?) Don't know that it really matters. His research is valid anyway.

Frank Harrist

Post by Frank Harrist » Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:22 pm

Bob you would probably like this book. It takes place in your region. You could probably find some of the places he refers to. I love the excerpts from spanish chronicles and letters. I have read all that I could find written about this area. It's how we know what little we know about the everyday life of the natives. Eyewitness accounts, even unreliable and biased can still be gleaned for useful information.

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Post by Minimalist » Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:40 pm

I'll keep it in mind.

I'm deep into Hardaker's book right now and I've got The God Delusion lined up behind that.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

Frank Harrist

Post by Frank Harrist » Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:46 pm

This will be much lighter reading.

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Starflower
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Post by Starflower » Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:39 am

Frank, thank you for the recommendation. I would go and check it out at my local library but, oh yeah, they closed them due to the general ignorance of people in the community. :cry: Anyway, off the soapbox, I'm headed for the used book stores later today and will see if I can find a copy.

It's good to see you back.

Star
It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
-- Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

"Give us the timber or we'll go all stupid and lawless on your butts". --Redcloud, MTF

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Post by Minimalist » Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:02 am

They closed the libraries???????
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

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Starflower
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Post by Starflower » Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:17 am

After the loss of the federal timber monies this year our county government closed the libraries to save money. Because the commissioners knew they were going to lose the funding for years and did nothing to find other methods of funding the library the good citizens of Jackson county would not vote for a levy to fund our libraries. Plus all the people who think libraries are obsolete because of the internet. So, no libraries in Jackson county. But we are doing better than Josephine county(just north of us) they voted against a levy to fund law enforcement. Hence the new line in my signature, I thought it was very apropos. Most of the rest of the country thinks of us as ignorant red necks and I feel we are just proving them right. Some of the comments in the newspaper forums around here are just classic. No punctuation, poor grammar and the spelling is so atrocious it's hard to make out what they intended to say. Kind of like you guys. :lol: :wink: Sorry I couldn't resist.
Okay back off the soapbox, I could go on for days about this topic.

Star
It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
-- Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

"Give us the timber or we'll go all stupid and lawless on your butts". --Redcloud, MTF

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Post by Minimalist » Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:19 am

Jesus....
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

Rokcet Scientist

Post by Rokcet Scientist » Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:34 am

Minimalist wrote:Jesus....
Having a blackout, Min?

8)

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Post by Minimalist » Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:42 am

Speechless at the inherent stupidity of closing libraries.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

Frank Harrist

Post by Frank Harrist » Tue Jun 26, 2007 8:36 pm

I hate to see libraries closed. Good to see you, Star. Good luck finding the book. My town is too small to even have a library or a book store....or a cop, for that matter. Takes durn near all day to swing back here on grapevines.

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Post by john » Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:56 pm

Starflower wrote:After the loss of the federal timber monies this year our county government closed the libraries to save money. Because the commissioners knew they were going to lose the funding for years and did nothing to find other methods of funding the library the good citizens of Jackson county would not vote for a levy to fund our libraries. Plus all the people who think libraries are obsolete because of the internet. So, no libraries in Jackson county. But we are doing better than Josephine county(just north of us) they voted against a levy to fund law enforcement. Hence the new line in my signature, I thought it was very apropos. Most of the rest of the country thinks of us as ignorant red necks and I feel we are just proving them right. Some of the comments in the newspaper forums around here are just classic. No punctuation, poor grammar and the spelling is so atrocious it's hard to make out what they intended to say. Kind of like you guys. :lol: :wink: Sorry I couldn't resist.
Okay back off the soapbox, I could go on for days about this topic.

Star

Nothing new, there, Star. I lived in the Rogue Valley in the late sixties/early seventies. I was one of "them redneck hippies". You forget that Medford, at least, had a "sundown" rule for african americans at least through the fifities and i think into the early sixties. Furthermore, the thin veneer of cultchah provided by the shakesperian festival and the retirement/got enough money people by no means changed the underlying way of life. Meanwhile, logging. What I mean to say is that, during that period, continuous trains comprised of hundreds of cars loaded with southren oregon timber left every day/night to the destination of oceangoing logships due for japan.

What you are dealing with is:

1.) An "original" white culture (who killed off all the indians) based on merciless exploitation of the natural resource for profit, and......

2.) Now that the natural resource is worn out, an entirely calculated cultural destination point combined with retirement centers, which is pure and vicious capitalism at its best.

I do not apologize for my opinion.

john

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Post by Digit » Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:02 am

They tell us we all live in free countries John so why should you apologise?

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Post by Forum Monk » Wed Jun 27, 2007 4:51 am

Digit wrote:... why should you apologise?
When I was growing up in the late sixties, there were 'rednecks' and there were 'hippies'. Never heard of a 'redneck hippie'. Its kind of like claiming to be 'geek jock'.
:lol:

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Post by Minimalist » Wed Jun 27, 2007 8:03 am

The proverbial mixed metaphor!
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

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