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Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 6:44 pm
by Roxanne
Found a link to a new article on the progress on an excavation of the Chachapoyas ... 9957.story

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:07 pm
by Beagle
Nice photo gallery! I wish more articles would include them.


Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:14 am
by Cognito
Nice article. I especially like this idea:
Among the arresting findings: the practice of incorporating the dead into defensive walls.
That practice is long overdue for a resurgence and I have a few nominations for defensive wall material. 8)

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:27 am
by Minimalist
The Russians used to bury their heroes in the Kremlin wall. Perhaps there is a Russki-Chachapoya link somewhere?

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:16 pm
by Ishtar
Keeping your dead around is a typical tradition of a culture that revers its ancestors.

Geometric patterns are typically shamanic and even more typically South American shamanic, for some reason. Same goes for snakes as well as deer antlers, much more likely to be used for ceremonial purposes than as coat hooks, as the journalist thinks!
Interior walls feature geometric friezes, sculptured serpents (the snake was a sacred symbol) and glaring stone faces -- eerie, unnerving visages from a lost era. The perpetual stares convey an enduring sense of reproach, as though disapproving of contemporary efforts to unearth the Chachapoya secrets.

Today, dozens of archaeologists and their assistants, armed with shovels, picks, brushes, pens and paper, endeavor to peel back the layers of dirt and debris and unlock the enigma. At roped-off digs, pieces of half-interred pottery and skeletal remains are clearly visible.

"We found these," said a grizzled, orange-helmeted Modesto Velazquez, a laborer who is part of the archaeological team, bearing several ancient deer antlers that served a decorative and possibly utilitarian purpose, an ancient version of coat hooks.
That gave me a chuckle! Reminds me of the ghat they found at Mohenjo Daro and some journalist said it was a swimming pool! Yeah....great swimmers the Harappans!

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:30 pm
by Minimalist
Maybe it was a mikvah?

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:46 pm
by Ishtar
So that must be it last we've found where the Hebrews came from. You can just imagine the Harrapan Jewish mothers on the Indus Valley seals:

"And this you are calling writing?"

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:04 pm
by kbs2244

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:34 am
by War Arrow
Further to the reverence of stiffs, I came across an interesting idea in a book called Religion & Empire - The Dynamics of Aztec & Inca Expansion by G. Conrad and A. Demarest (Cambridge University Press) which suggests that the Inca state (already bordering on civil war when Pizzaro showed up) was greatly weakened by an emerging class struggle between the dead and the living. Ancestors were revered (as we know) and continued to maintain post-mortem property rights on places that were looked after by their descendents. By the 16th century it was getting to the stage where the dead owned more than the living, which as you can appreciate was the subject of disgruntled mutterings.

It's an odd book which sometimes drifts off into Marxist theory (which I find a bit dubious) but the reasoning of the above claim seems sound, and unwittingly amusing.

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:53 pm
by kbs2244
Kind of reminds me of a story I read about nice retirement places on the south coast of France.
It is not unusual for a someone to by a house, villa, apartment, whatever, on the condition that the present owner can live there until they die.
Some 100 year plus lady had out lived 3 buyers!
She was leading a pretty good life.

Being correct

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:20 pm
by Cognito
Please be more sensitive. These people weren't "dead" or "stiffs"; they had simply assumed room temperature and were breathing-challenged. :shock:

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:57 pm
by Minimalist
Just got the brochure for next year's trips. One to China and one to Peru.
China's out of the question, There's nothing I would sit on a plane for 24 hours to see.

Peru looks probable. I'll take more pictures.

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:45 pm
by john
Speaking of South America.........

A rather old, but absolutely wonderful book about Chichen Itza.

"The Temple of the Warriors", by Earl H. Morris

The copy I have was published in 1931 by Charles Scribner's Sons; don't know about reprints.


Re: Being correct

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 7:02 am
by War Arrow
Cognito wrote:Please be more sensitive. These people weren't "dead" or "stiffs"; they had simply assumed room temperature and were breathing-challenged. :shock:
I hereby apologise for any offence I may have caused to members of the respirationally different community.

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:12 am
by Minimalist
That's good because they can haunt you!