Current Biblical Archaeology

Post by **Minimalist** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:06 am

just because they believe the bible it doesn't disqualify them

No, but it renders them eligible for a seat in a psych ward.

so now finkelstein is now God

Finkelstein is better than god....Finkelstein is real.

Post by **Minimalist** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 10:50 am

As you obviously can't find this stuff yourself, here's an example of a bible apologist trying to combine all the archaeological evidence....or at least as much as he dares....into a new theory. He's a bible thumper from some Baptist college and he has come up with a theory that will manage to piss off both sides of the equation. Simply put, Soggie does not understand that bible thumping morons can tolerate no 'revision' or 'deviation' because that means that the bible isn't the "word of god." Nonetheless, he's one of your boys, arch, and you are welcome to him.

http://www.quodlibet.net/soggie-origins.shtml

The proposal is simply that at approximately 1400 B.C.E. Joshua’s conquest defeated/ displaced a hinterland pastoralist population in Canaan. Such a proposal fits virtually all available evidence and provides a template for understanding the evolution of the nation of Israel. Indeed, the economic and political strategies fostered in the initial conquest and settlement periods had a profound effect on the later nature of the people identified as “Israel” and their eventual sedentarization.

In other words, the bible account of Joshua laying low vast cities is horseshit and this guy theorizes that Joshua pushed aside some other goatherders and stole their water and land.

I'm not even going to bother pointing out all the contradictions that such a theory implies for the traditional bible story because as far as I am concerned that has already been dealt with. What this "theory" does represent is the desperation of bible scholars to find and maintain some justification for the biblcal account.

I wonder if they fired his ass for writing such heresy?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 2:40 pm

As long as you use circular reasoning to try to prove your point, we will continue to call you on it.

i don't use circular reasoning and have always used both religious and non-religious material to back up whati am saying. along with your side's inability to sustain any kind of legitimate logical argument.

You should be ashamed to call yourself an archaeologist since you have no idea of science or history

you have no idea of what i really know. plus i just don't accept your side's version of events...i am allowed to do that.

Finkelstein is better than god....Finkelstein is real

i guess you are now upset that it has been proven that finkelstein is off the mark and got his butt spanked again.

i will read your link later, looks like something i would like to get some background on but i find it amazing how everything i post is for my agenda while everything you post is supposed to be taken as gospel truth.

i have no agenda here except for good quality discussion, what you believe is up to you but your method of response undermines anything you have to say.

i believe the Bible and will not believe non-religious researchers for they lack the insight needed to apply the evidence, something that has been shown over and over again. they do find the evidence needed to prove the Bible but since their agenda allows no such option, they decide to apply it to theories that are more fanciful than the brothers grimm.

that fear of snake article i posted is a good case in point---there is a researcher who says these species developed these defenses but you can only prove it by examining other species who have no correlation to the theory's subject. ---she doesn't reccommend studying the real species because she can't prove her theory by doing that. that makes me laugh as that is a typical response from an evolutionist.

prove your theory by proving what you say and stop doing an end run on the facts.

Post by **Minimalist** » Sat Jul 22, 2006 3:34 pm

The minor disagreements over dating between modern archaeologists do nothing to validate your stupid bible.

Remember, you were the one who introduced Amihai Mazar into the equation only to be embarassed when it was pointed out that Mazar and Finkelstein's difference in dating is about 50 years....not 2,000.

Dever and Finkelstein disagree by about 100 years but you don't like Dever, either, because he dismisses your bible as being nothing more than silly legends.

If I know you, you'll end up quoting some charlatan like Billy Graham as if he he is an expert on the sbject.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:30 am

If I know you, you'll end up quoting some charlatan like Billy Graham as if he he is an expert on the sbject

sorry but billy graham is an evangelist not a historian nor archaeologist.

Remember, you were the one who introduced Amihai Mazar into the equation only to be embarassed when it was pointed out that Mazar and Finkelstein's difference in dating is about 50 years....not 2,000

sorry again but i wasn't embarrassed those are your words and i have said nothing about them. i do not take anything you say as fact. dates are in place because those that need to categorize a time period or manipulate the evidence use them. i see that the evidence is there but applied wrongly by those who do not believe.

ReneDescartes · Post by **ReneDescartes** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 6:17 am

I can only say this more .Nothing Arch says indicates any logic,knowledge of history ,understanding even less of it .He never provides any arguments other than the bible .Come over her in Europ Arch ,we treat people like you with loving care in our wards .Lucky even in your own country you are part of a minority .Seems even from that minority nobody seems te be willing to associate with you as you stand in this forum alone without anybody corroborating your side of the story .Never wondered why ?It least you haver proven one thing without a shadow of a doubt ,you are not an archaeologist .

Post by **Minimalist** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:33 am

If Billy Graham used the same false promises and false claims to sell aluminum siding that he uses to sell god, his ass would be in jail for fraud.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:55 pm

Nothing Arch says indicates any logic,knowledge of history ,understanding even less of it

i see you are back to your mantra...not only do i understand it but i alt least construct responses that have something to say.

Lucky even in your own country you are part of a minority

that is where you are wrong...more people believe in creation than they do in evolution so the minority rests with you.

but since you cannot construct an argument beyond declatory statements and personal attacks, it is obvious you have nothing to offer, so again i ask (and it is a question that has been avoided by your side)--- why should anyone believe what you say? you have nothing to offer except ---nothing???

Post by **Minimalist** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 2:24 pm

but i alt least construct responses that have something to say.

Really?

News to me.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 2:47 pm

here are a few quotes from james long's book 'the riddle ofthe exodus'

he is not an expert by any means but he does raise a few good questions and points:

"If ramses the great was the pharaoh of the exodus where is it recorded during his reign?" (of course a failure like that may be omited due to vanity reasons) pg. 64

"the vreator ordained them as a kingdom of priests at mount sinai but the rest of the world did not recognize Israel as a geopolitical entity until the time they had a king." pg. 61

"Dewette overlooks some basic facts that stare in the face of anyone who is intimately familiar with the manner and tenor of the hebrew bible. What is significant here is thatthe biblical account tells that a mss. of the torah was found in josiah's time by chilkiyhau, the high priest...itis most significant that the bible does not tell us tha tit was written by chilkiyhau." pg. 47

"it is significant that the bible, on the spot tell us that shapan's grandfather was none other than meshulam the scribe. this information is vital and critical to a proper understanding of the narrative and tells us why shappan was competant to render judgment as to the authenticity of the found mss." pg. 48

"whenartifacts are uncovered from other cultures that echo events, they arbitraily decide, without any precedent, that the hebrews absorbed or copied the event into their 'myths'." pg. 45

"the so-called higher critics will argue that the torah was written at a much later date in history. however, recent discoveries confirm that the torah is much older than its detractors would have us believe." pg. 45

"the biblical account of history is widely discounted by the minimalists for one reason: the bible is a 'holy' book. being a sacred text somehow disqualifies it as history. the historical value is also dismissed because the biblical text often recounts miracles." pg. 43 (though page 44 should be read also)

"It is generally unknown that the chronology of judaism has remained virtually unchanged since its origins. jewish chronology therefore differs from secular chronology; the latter is subject to continual change." pg. 37

"in 1996, arch. amnon ben tor stood above an ancient floor burnt black and told david briggs of the associated press, 'hazor was destoryed by fire. nobody can prove to me that the story in joshua is entirely fiction'". pg. 165

"...we should be able to pinpoint this pivotal event intime. but whose chronology should we consult? the timetables of other cultures of the near east and even our own calendars have all been subjected to constant revision." pg. 141

that should be enough for now, chew onthese and i wil post more later

Post by **Minimalist** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 3:15 pm

Oh, this must be a good one!

No results match your search for ""James Long" "Riddle of the Exodus"" in Amazon.com.

Did you write it under a pen name?

""If ramses the great was the pharaoh of the exodus where is it recorded during his reign?" (of course a failure like that may be omited due to vanity reasons) pg. 64 "

If Ramses the Great was pharoah during the Exodus then your god and his minions can't count because there would be insufficient time between the Exodus and the building of the Temple under 'Solomon'.

""the vreator ordained them as a kingdom of priests at mount sinai but the rest of the world did not recognize Israel as a geopolitical entity until the time they had a king." pg. 61
"

Merneptah recognized them enough to recount kicking the ever-loving shit out of them on his victory stele.

""Dewette overlooks some basic facts that stare in the face of anyone who is intimately familiar with the manner and tenor of the hebrew bible. What is significant here is thatthe biblical account tells that a mss. of the torah was found in josiah's time by chilkiyhau, the high priest...itis most significant that the bible does not tell us tha tit was written by chilkiyhau." pg. 47 "

Oddly, Finkelstein discusses this point at some length....which you would only know if you got your nose out of your bible and read some real archaeology.

""it is significant that the bible, on the spot tell us that shapan's grandfather was none other than meshulam the scribe. this information is vital and critical to a proper understanding of the narrative and tells us why shappan was competant to render judgment as to the authenticity of the found mss." pg. 48 "

Hey, it's your novel....you can people it with whomever you want. Changes nothing in the archaeological record which says that the bible is a work of mainly fiction.

""whenartifacts are uncovered from other cultures that echo events, they arbitraily decide, without any precedent, that the hebrews absorbed or copied the event into their 'myths'." pg. 45 "

That one really sticks in your craw, huh? Derives from the fact that your precious Israelites/Hebrews did not exist prior to the Early Iron Age and they were not particularly accomplished until much later than that. The fact that the Sumerians and Egyptians far predate your heroes is not news to anyone outside the range of bible-based lunacy.

""the so-called higher critics will argue that the torah was written at a much later date in history. however, recent discoveries confirm that the torah is much older than its detractors would have us believe." pg. 45 "

What discoveries might those be? I notice he doesn't mention them.

""the biblical account of history is widely discounted by the minimalists for one reason: the bible is a 'holy' book. being a sacred text somehow disqualifies it as history. the historical value is also dismissed because the biblical text often recounts miracles." pg. 43 (though page 44 should be read also)
"

The biblical account of history is totally discounted by the minimalists because there is absolutely no proof to back up anything that it says. In fact, it is at odds with the cultures of other nations and, oddly, those nations DO have artifacts to back them up. See the difference?

""It is generally unknown that the chronology of judaism has remained virtually unchanged since its origins. jewish chronology therefore differs from secular chronology; the latter is subject to continual change." pg. 37 "

Fiction derived from fiction remains fiction. Who cares?

""in 1996, arch. amnon ben tor stood above an ancient floor burnt black and told david briggs of the associated press, 'hazor was destoryed by fire. nobody can prove to me that the story in joshua is entirely fiction'". pg. 165
"

A non sequitur. Lots of Canaanite towns were destroyed many times over by various armies rampaging through the area. The notion that the fact that there was a fire means that 'Joshua' is true is just about the stupidest thing I have ever seen. Joshua is a fictional heroic creation...if such a mass-murdering storm trooper can be seen as "heroic" by much later writers.

""...we should be able to pinpoint this pivotal event intime. but whose chronology should we consult? the timetables of other cultures of the near east and even our own calendars have all been subjected to constant revision." pg. 141 "

What 'pivotal event?' This is even more useless than most of your "quotations."

"that should be enough for now, chew onthese and i wil post more later"

It's more than enough to convince me that you are clueless and you rely on 'experts' who are even more desperate than you to verify your bible stupidity. By all means, keep trying if you must.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 7:42 pm

you know that if the ages of the Patriarchs are fictionally based on the lengths of reign of the sumerian kings of Kish as it indeed seems then Methuseleh lived to a ripe old age of 16

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:04 pm

Did you write it under a pen name?

no, i left an initial out on purpose so i didn't have to read your off-hand dismissal.

judging from your response, it being the same as all others, i see that you are not interested in anything that remotely hints at a discussion. you are an elitist, who fails to realize that truths can be found in many places as non-religious archaeologists and other researchers leave out details from their work, as it undermines their theories.

you only accept finkelstein and dever because they tell you whatyou want to hear.

"the first problem is that the biblical and archaeological data can be read in different ways, thus producing varying results" pg 123 Israelites in Egypt.

no wonder finkelstein and dever are so popular, they get to say what they want and then say they are supported by the arch. data. when in reality they are not.

Post by **Minimalist** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 9:10 pm

Nice try but I found the loser anyway.

http://lightcatcherprod.com/products_books_riddle.shtml

Lightcatcher productions? No one else would publish his books so he has to publish them himself.....and doubtless peddle to people like you who are desperate for someone (anyone) to pat them on the head and tell them that their precious bible is right. I'm glad this guy found you. You two deserve each other.

If you are happy listening to some jerkoff make shit up so you feel vindicated, who am I to quibble?

BUT. If you post such horseshit here, under the guise of evidence, expect for it to be rigorously disputed.

Your problem is that you can't handle any criticism of the fucking bible. To you...it's holy.

To me.....it's full of fucking holes.

john · Post by **john** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:52 pm

yow. wow.

i dont believe the number of pages disputing the Number of Angels That Can Be Fitted On the Head of a Pin.

Read "Letters from the Earth", by one Mark Twain.

We are all of us "nickle plated angels" and to accept what passes for either science or religion these days is a fool's game.

where have the really BIG brains gone ?????????????????

john