Homo Erectus/Neanderthal in North America?

[ReneDescartes]

Saw a documentary which might interest you all,relating to the appearance of modern humans in America based on the ressemblance of solutrean blades and the clovis blades .Very interesting was the fact that mitochondrial dna from a small fraction of the indian nations was alledgedly traced back to Europ. http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/20 ... mbus.shtml
Alot of the arguments make sense .

[Minimalist]

Bingo, Rene.

A "theory" has to consider all the evidence and unless and until someone can show that these Solutrean blades are frauds the orthodox Siberian Land Bridge theory is in trouble.

[Leona Conner]

Great article, thanks for sharing. Our problem is that since it is a BBC program it will take a couple of years to get to our side of the pond.

[Bruce]

does anybody know if thy have done dna test on american indians for neandertal?
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[Bruce]

does anybody know if they have done dna test on american indians for neandertal or if this possible?

[Beagle]

Hi Bruce - the DNA tests being done so far are the mitochondrial DNA, which shows migration patterns quite well, but tell us little else. Most of the native American mDNA shows that they migrated from east Asia.

There is a group around Lake Superior that is most like eastern European descent.

[Bruce]

how do they know that the dna came from europe rather than dna coming from america?

[FreeThinker]

"It has to be done before 2012, so we can receive the historical influence of the cosmic energy from the cosmic center of our galaxy."

The Osman's looniness is fully on display here. The concept of the "pyramids" is becoming so laughable that I feel sorry for all the well meaning folk who have been duped by this charlatan. Thanks Doug for getting that translation to us.

"Formally, it's an archaeological monument, but the whole happening has little in common with archaeology."

I actually agree with this statement by Osmanagic. Straight from the horse's (or should it be ass'?) mouth.


Arch, here is some info about the 2012 date:

http://www.levity.com/eschaton/Why2012.html


Also, I looked into the Daily Grail website in connection to Schoch (thanks Beagle for the link). He is a maverick but I will be interested to see what he has to say. He did, after all, come out against the Yonaguni "monument". Publication of a formal peer reviewable report would be nice.

I also had to check out the Daily Grail website (I never had been there before following Beagle's link ). They have a forum of sorts there. The Bosnian "pyramids" and Schoch have a topic discussed there. Some familiar names from this board with familiar accusations have been posting there as well. If you would like to check it out the URL is:

http://www.dailygrail.com/node/3187

[FreeThinker]

Damn, wrong thread...sorry folks

[FreeThinker]

The Solutrean-Clovis connection is an interesting theory. The similar morphology and knapping technique of cerain lithic materials is indeed striking. Also a genetic marker of the Ojibwa (I think it is the Objibwa) does indeed seem to match a northern European marker. There has even been a study of the concentration of Clovis discoveries across north America and the majority of Clovis sites are on the east coast. This is contrary to what one would expect if they (the Clovis peoples) had come over the Bering land bridge from Siberia.

Some problems with the theory include the total lack of Clovis art (the Solutrean's were prolific in their artistic output) and a several thousand year gap of time separating Clovis from Solutrean.

I personally think there is plenty enough evidence to move past the "Clovis first" paradigm but I am still cautious about embracing the Solutrean-Clovis connection. More evidence is needed to make that call I think.

See, now this post is on topic!

[Beagle]

Hi Bruce - the DNA tests being done so far are the mitochondrial DNA, which shows migration patterns quite well, but tell us little else. Most of the native American mDNA shows that they migrated from east Asia.

There is a group around Lake Superior that is most like eastern European descent.

I'm quoting myself - strange.

I should have said western Europe - sorry.

[Minimalist]

Here you go, lads...

http://209.157.64.201/focus/f-news/1630 ... ts?page=11

Rare Genetic Link to Europe

“Disagreement swirls around the timing of their arrival, the nature of their migration, how fast they moved across the landscape and their relationship to contemporary Native Americans,” he said.


Some scientists think that the earliest colonizers could have started out somewhere in Europe, not in Asia as previously thought. That idea is rooted in a rare genetic link called haplogroup X - DNA passed down through women that dates back more than 30,000 years.


Recent genetic samples from remains in Illinois show that the rare European DNA was around centuries before European exploration. Today, haplogroup X is found in about 20,000 American Indians.


To some researchers, its presence suggests the Mongolian ancestors of most American Indians were latecomers. Genetic tests show the DNA is completely absent from East Asian and Siberian populations.


That could dispel the more than half-century old notion that humans migrated across a land bridge from Siberia at the end of the Ice Age, made stone tools and hunted while moving south.


Archaeologists since 1996 have found genetic indications of several migrations, along with evidence that people came from Polynesia, regions near Japan and even western Europe.

But, this line just drives me up the friggin' wall!

“Frankly, it makes me nervous,” Smithsonian Institution anthropologist Stephen Loring said of the idea that the first Americans during the Ice Age were of European ancestry.


“It’s a heretical argument, and some people, unfortunately, will use it to assert the cultural superiority of Europeans. But it’s a good theory that needs to be tested.”

[Minimalist]

A slightly more technical report of the same findings.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... s=99057522

[Beagle]

Yeah, I'm up the same friggin' wall with ya.

[Bruce]

I'm going for the out of america theory that we settled western europe got cut off and rediscovered ourselves. the search for vinland continues, and the hell with smithsonion.