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Cognito
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Re-dating

Post by Cognito » Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:57 am

Seems to me that virtually all contested artifacts/sites will have to be subjected to the same state-of-the-art dating techniques to straighten all this out.
Absolutely correct, Stan. It's time to return to sites that were dismissed out of hand by Clovis-Firsters to subject them to rigorous scientific analysis and dating. I don't give a crap whether the dates come in at 10,000 or 250,000 years old since my "agenda" is to get at the truth, whatever that may be. Until then, I think I'll start selling Stuart Fiedel pin cushions in Michelle's online store! :D

Michelle, can I include Voodoo instructions with my pin cushions for infliction a painful and ugly demise, full of warts and festering pus for Fiedel? :twisted:

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Forum Monk
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Post by Forum Monk » Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:06 am

Can someone enlighten me about the Clovis migration? According to the present (perhaps soon to be modified) theory, the N.E. Asian populations that moved into NA followed a certain ice-free corridor through the interior part of the continent. This does not necessarily rule out the possibilty of a west coast migration as well. My question is this - who determined that fact and timing of the open corridor? Would it have the archaeologists or the geologists and how would they have discovered this?

:?

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MichelleH
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Re: Re-dating

Post by MichelleH » Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:40 am

Cognito wrote:
Seems to me that virtually all contested artifacts/sites will have to be subjected to the same state-of-the-art dating techniques to straighten all this out.
Absolutely correct, Stan. It's time to return to sites that were dismissed out of hand by Clovis-Firsters to subject them to rigorous scientific analysis and dating. I don't give a crap whether the dates come in at 10,000 or 250,000 years old since my "agenda" is to get at the truth, whatever that may be. Until then, I think I'll start selling Stuart Fiedel pin cushions in Michelle's online store! :D

Michelle, can I include Voodoo instructions with my pin cushions for infliction a painful and ugly demise, full of warts and festering pus for Fiedel? :twisted:
Voodoo away Cog! :lol:
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Post by Beagle » Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:45 am

Forum Monk wrote:Can someone enlighten me about the Clovis migration? According to the present (perhaps soon to be modified) theory, the N.E. Asian populations that moved into NA followed a certain ice-free corridor through the interior part of the continent. This does not necessarily rule out the possibilty of a west coast migration as well. My question is this - who determined that fact and timing of the open corridor? Would it have the archaeologists or the geologists and how would they have discovered this?

:?
Monk, it is thought by pre-clovis believers that there were a number of migrations to the Americas. Some by sea of course.

As to the ice free corridor, this fact was established by the artifacts that have been found. As people travelled through this corridor they left their usual garbage behind them, and those artifacts have been dated to give us a clear picture of the migration. On either side of this corridor, nothing has been found that dates to that time period.

None of the migrations through this corridor contained Clovis points.

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Post by Minimalist » Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:51 am

And there are no clovis type points in Siberia, either.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Charlie Hatchett
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Post by Charlie Hatchett » Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:42 pm

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Post by marduk » Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:01 pm

Minimalist wrote:And there are no clovis type points in Siberia, either.
nice assumption
made an ass of u but not me
:lol:
http://cat.he.net/~archaeol/9611/newsbriefs/uptar.html
Eight thousand-year-old point from Siberia, seen here in four views, may be linked to New World Clovis points. It is the only fluted projectile known from the Old World
http://www.centerfirstamericans.org/mt.php?a=95
The tool assemblage of Component VII is unique for Beringia, and Dikov’s radiocarbon samples produced dates clustering around 14,000 RCYBP (about 16,800 CALYBP). Although no Clovis-style fluted points were found at Ushki, the Component VII assemblage generally resembles known Clovis assemblages and seems old enough to be an excellent candidate for a Clovis antecedent.
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Charlie Hatchett
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Post by Charlie Hatchett » Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:09 pm

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Post by Charlie Hatchett » Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:23 pm

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Post by Charlie Hatchett » Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:24 pm

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Post by Minimalist » Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:33 pm

Don't worry, Charlie. If they have to the Club will plant some Clovis points in Siberia!
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

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Cognito
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Post by Cognito » Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:40 pm

The Uptar point can hardly be called Clovis-like. It's pretty much unifacial, with a flute traveling up the entire ventral side. And it's dated 3,000 younger than Clovis points. So, if anything, this point may have evolved from Clovis (I doubt that also).
I looked at the picture presented for the Uptar point. It does appear to be a unifacial, non-sophisticated point and looks nothing like the Clovis points that I have seen. Clovis points are impressive due to their beautiful craftsmanship. I cannot say as much for the Uptar point and I agree with Charlie that the flute traveling up the ventral side is not the result of the Clovis flintknapping technique ... maybe this thing was made by a post-Clovis paleo retard? The expert who labeled this as Clovis might be guilty of wishful thinking. :roll:

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I'd love to find some Clovis points in Siberia, but let's get some better specimens. This one sucks! :evil:
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Charlie Hatchett
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Post by Charlie Hatchett » Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:56 pm

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Post by marduk » Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:59 pm

hey I guess if someone did find lots of clovis points in siberia they'd make a lot of money right
everyone would want to buy one to prove berengia is the answer to everything
:wink:
go check flights charlie and pack your parka
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Post by Charlie Hatchett » Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:21 pm

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