Fingerprints of the Gods - Book Review

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Essan
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Post by Essan » Wed Jul 05, 2006 2:51 am

Whilst it's intriguing that Buache depicted Antarctica as 2 landmasses (albeit ones totally different in configuration to what exist in reality - the Tranantarctic mountains would actually run across the sea between them ... ) I don't see it as evidence that pre-existing ancient maps existed that had been drawn up when Antarctica was ice free.

It seemly says to me that there was a common belief in a southern landmass but that no-one really knew what it looked like so each cartographer drew it according to his own guesses.

Of course, it's all a moot point really - the physical evidence points to more extensive ice covering Antarctica for much of the past 100,000 years.

As for the alleged Ptolemy map showing glaciers in N Europe - I note that this info is taken from Hapgood's Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings. I don't have that book to know whether any such map is actually depicted in it, or whether (as I suspect) Hapgood is himself simply himself quoting from an earlier work. If such a map exists I'd love to see it. How did these ancient cartographers depict glaciers and ice sheets on their maps I wonder? Maybe in reality the map simply shows a blank area for N Europe because the cartographer had no knowledge of what existed there?

Incidently, it's worth noting that Hancock frequently quotes Hapgood and other authors without bothering to check the original sources. This has led to a number of errors that I know of - some of which will no doubt be discussed later on :)

Minimalist
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Post by Minimalist » Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:22 am

I finally found a map of Antarctica as it would appear were it ice-free.

http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/140antarctica.html
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

Frank Harrist

Post by Frank Harrist » Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:11 pm

Minimalist wrote:I finally found a map of Antarctica as it would appear were it ice-free.

http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/140antarctica.html
Which way's north? :wink:

Beagle
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Post by Beagle » Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:15 pm

well, I've looked at maps. Hancock is really only asking the reader to look at the Piri Reis map. It's interesting. I don't see anything about it however, that makes me think that it was copied from great antiquity.

He refers to Hapgoods theory a lot. Do we need to be dealing with that now?

Minimalist
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Post by Minimalist » Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:23 pm

AS I understand it the theory of plate tectonics came out a few years after Hapgood's Earth Crust Displacement theory and plate tectonics has won the geological lottery.

Without some evidence that EC Displacement is true, why waste time on it?
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

Beagle
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Post by Beagle » Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:26 pm

Good. I'm relieved to hear you say that. Then if we have done all we can with maps, I'll move ahead with capter 2. It's not very long.

Minimalist
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Post by Minimalist » Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:37 pm

I hate to be the one to break this to you but Chapters 2 and 3 are about maps, also.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

Beagle
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Post by Beagle » Wed Jul 05, 2006 6:04 pm

Yes, I just read chapter 2, so I'll go ahead and read #3. I'll get right back but I'm feeling as if I've got a good idea about this.

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Post by Beagle » Wed Jul 05, 2006 6:51 pm

OK - so much for maps. Here's where I'm at with Hancock so far. He has presented some very interesting maps, all dated to the early 16th century that seem to show the coastline of antarctica relatively ice-free. That , he presumes, leaves us no option except to believe that the maps were copied over many years and that they represent a period of 6,000 ybp.

I spoke earlier of the new studies being done on ocean currents and how they affect our climate. So it seems particularly noteworthy that, at the time these maps were dated, the "Little Ice Age" was in full swing in the northern hemisphere. So, if the oceanic conveyor belt was shut down temporarily, probably the circumpolar current was as well.

If forced to make a choice between two unproven theories, I'll go with the ocean currents.

Let me know if I should be looking harder at something else.

Minimalist
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Post by Minimalist » Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:01 pm

Again, we have a decent understanding of the subglacial topography of Antarctica and it has never been ice-free in our time period, either. In 10,000 years will people speculate that the ice temporarily melted so we could draw our maps?

Of course, that would mean that a civilization capable of producing seismic surveys and ground penetrating radar existed in remote antiquity. I don't know why Hancock shies away from that and clings to the Earth-Crust Displacement as an alternative? Both have little obvious evidence....do they?
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

Beagle
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Post by Beagle » Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:12 pm

I see what you're saying Min, but I don't see anything about the maps that suggest the continent was ice free. Just the coastline. The sea ice is very fragile, as it forms from salt water.

In the summer, those areas would be the "land of the midnight sun", just as the northern hemisphere is at another time of year. And if the warmer oceanic waters were able to mix in the sea ice would disappear.

The land ice is different. I think it's been decided that it's been present for 14 million years. Where do you see the maps suggesting that anything but the coastline is ice free?

Minimalist
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Post by Minimalist » Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:29 pm

On page 14/15 in my book he has the Oronteus Finnaeus map he notes Hapgood saying that the map showed mountains, some coastal, some not with rivers flowing from the mountains.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

Beagle
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Post by Beagle » Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:31 pm

Another point that Hancock fail to mention - to circumnavigate that Antarctic continent is a trip of over 11,165 miles, not including the trip to get to it.

Magellan sailed that many miles, yes, but he was able to re-provision as needed. Anyone mapping the entire continent in the early 16th century would have had to do it one section at a time I think.

I don't know if any voyage like that has been recorded.

Beagle
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Post by Beagle » Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:43 pm

Well, firstly, many mountain peaks are visible today from a great distance. My only source is what I remember from some science shows.

Rivers? I don't know. Hancock is quoting Hapgood as saying that. I do know that fresh water streams from glaciers are not uncommon but he is calling them rivers. I don't have a good answer for that except I don't see it with my own eyes.

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Post by Minimalist » Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:44 pm

I rather doubt that there was any voyage of discovery around Antarctica in the 15th or 16th century. Had it been made and the scouting ship survived the effort, we would not have had to wait until the 19th century to find out about Antarctica.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

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