crossbows

[Guest]

test (won't post)

[marduk]

wtf

[marduk]

wtf

[marduk]

he is mentioned in celtic legend as well as gaelic
he leads the hounds of Annwyn
this mythology died when christianity stamped on it
so no way was he roman either
like they claimed in that lying film with clive owen
hehe
and in a few years elements from Strider in lord of the rings will become added to the story
like if you didn't already notice the character of Aragorn was based on Arthur in the first place
the Dux Bellorum angle came from August Hunt
an american writer of english mythological fiction
did you know that OAS ?
Or did you just read the hype about it

ladies in lakes
invading vikings
invading picts
magical swords that only one man can pull from a stone
a round table that everyone who sits at is equal (except of course they aren't)
an unbeatable knight who becomes a monk and then becomes a knight again and saves the day
a sword that is broken and then reforged
an evil son
oh and lets not forget
Merlin the welsh/english/alien wizard
who is in fact based originally on the God Gwydion of the mythological group the children of Don
who's brother Dewi has the symbol of the red dragon
from which you get the tale of the red and white dragons fightingover england and the story that england is built on the bones of a great dragon
and the dragon sleeps
let me know when any part of this sounds like real life eh

[oldarchystudent]

Again, we can dismiss Lancelot etc as medieval and Victorian romanticism.

From Historia Brittonum, written late 8th early 9th century based on earlier works.

Referring to Octha, son of Hengist"

"Then in those days Arthur fought against them with the kins of the Britons, but he was a commander of the battles." From there it goes on to list the battles, the river Glein, the river Dubglas, Fassas, Coed Clyddon and so on.

Annals Cambrae - late 8th Cent:

"Year 72: The battle of Badon in which ARthur bor the cross of our lord Jesus Christ on his shoulders for 3 days and 3 nights, and the Britons were the victors" (there's your Christian influence, I'd be skeptical that he was a converted Christian)

"Year 92: Guieth Camlann in which Arthur and Medraut perished and ther was plague in Briton and Ireland"

Best scholarship has the year counting in the Annals Cambrae starting year 1 = 445 CE, so 445 + 72 = the year of the battle of Badon at 517 CE.

I think there's enough to say somebody of this genreal description at that time, but like so many other things, Arthur gets crushed under the weight of his own mythology.

Cheers

Jim

[marduk]

yeah
but Nennius who wrote Historia Brittonum was descrined by Gerhard Helm as "unrestrainedly inventive"
so in reality he was a bit like sitchin
taking some real facts and putting his own spin on it and adding details where he saw fit

the thing that really makes me laugh when people claim to have found Arthur is that the first thing he loses is his name

I like the legend that he will return in time of our greatest need
its the same claim as made for Quetzlocatl, Odin, Enlil, Shiva and a host of other ancient world Gods including of course some carpenter from Nazereth
but like where was he when the Nazis were invading our airspace and dropping bombs on our cities
did he oversleep

[Bruce]

http://www.warehamforge.ca/ROMiron/index.html

The legend of pulling the sword from stone comes from the vikings invention of a smeltering system to extract iron from stone. It started the revolution in warfare.

[marduk]

you mean you never heard of the bronze age ?

the period when weapons went from stone to metal and the first swords made an appearance

[Minimalist]

LOL - yes, the Morte d'Arthur et al versions are pretty flowery, but he is mentioned in the Easter annals as being a Dux Belorum, not a king but an influential war leader.

I imagine that after the Romans withdrew from Britain in the early 5th century there was some attempt, however futile, by the local, Romanized, Britons to defend themselves from the invading barbarians. Eight centuries later when L'Morte d'Artur was written it was embellished with all the 12th century trappings of knights and castles, etc.

[oldarchystudent]

yeah
but Nennius who wrote Historia Brittonum was descrined by Gerhard Helm as "unrestrainedly inventive"
so in reality he was a bit like sitchin
taking some real facts and putting his own spin on it and adding details where he saw fit

Nennius didn't write Historia Brittonum (early 9th cent). Neither did Gildas. That would have been nice as it would put it in the 6th century. Historica Brittonum is more likely 8th century, and I don't believe the true author is known.

Again we can dismiss the resurrection part of the myth, but at the root of it all there seems to be a real guy.

[Tech]

I dont know if you are talking about the same person , but years ago I read , from a ninth century monk , the supposedly passed down storys of the 10 battles of arthur a great mercenary captain .

[oldarchystudent]

I dont know if you are talking about the same person , but years ago I read , from a ninth century monk , the supposedly passed down storys of the 10 battles of arthur a great mercenary captain .

Yes Nennius is warly 9th century. Sorry I didn't word that very well - Gildas would have been closer to the actual time. There was an idea that he wrote it, but no....

[marduk]

Who was the real author of the Historia Brittonum? As we have discussed above, the preface that contains the actual name of ‘Nennius’ is only to be found in in later version of the MS. The earliest two, the Harleian 3859h and the Chartres M98, neither have the preface or any reference to the name of the author. It is only MS CCCC 139 and its derivates (MS CCCC 139, fo. 168v), that provides the famous prologue, starting with: Ego Ninnius, Eluodugi disciples (I, Ninnius, disciple of Elffodwg). Two other hands have added Nennio (abl.) and Nemnii (gen.), but Ninnius must be considered the authentic form. But how authentic is it? The rest of the preface consists of later collations from Harleian MSS and a Gildasian recension.

http://www.vortigernstudies.org.uk/artsou/historia.htm

[Bruce]

Marduk wrote
the bronze age


Crossbows were in use in China by the fifth century BCE and quickly became an important element in the warfare of the Warring States period. Where other bows rely on the strength of the archer, the crossbow has a mechanical trigger, so that many releases could be made without tiring the crossbowman. The Chinese development of the crossbow depended on bronze technology advanced enough to allow manufacture of accurately machined trigger-mechanisms. Early crossbows were portable and mostly operated by one archer. They became popular for the defense of royal entourages and for hunting; the later multiple-firing crossbows were intended for military campaigns

http://www.thebeckoning.com/medieval/cr ... ssbow.html

Whoops I didn't think bronze would hold the latch pin.