Dragons!

[Barracuda]

I was watching TV the other night. I think it was the History International channel. There was a special on Dragons.

An interesting theory was proposed. They proposed that the dragon is so universal because it incorporates the traits of the three creatures that most commonly preyed on early man. The Cat, the Bird, and the Snake.

Humans still get such a freak on about being eaten alive. Especially if the predator is a non mammal like a shark or a Croc. I know I do. I admit to hearing the Jaws music sometimes out on the ocean in my little kayak.

Logically, how is it hat different that being killed in an auto accident?

I guess 40-50,000 years has not been long enough to breed that fear out of us?

When you think about it, are we carrying around other psychological baggage from the stone age?

I know its more of an anthropological question than an archaeological one, but still I find it interesting

[Minimalist]

I think I caught the tail end of that.....no pun intended.

[marduk]

I heard this about dragons before and it is total baloney
dragons came into existence in recorded history and their evolution in texts is well recorded.
they evolved in the first instance from stories of sea serpents which litter the ancient world
the christian church did more to popularise dragons than anyone else and tha was strictly in the common era

[Cognito]

An interesting theory was proposed. They proposed that the dragon is so universal because it incorporates the traits of the three creatures that most commonly preyed on early man. The Cat, the Bird, and the Snake. Humans still get such a freak on about being eaten alive.

Well, all creatures get a freak on about being eaten alive, not just humans! I'm siding with Marduk on this one, dragons are a rather recent phenomenon and have nothing to do with "genetic memories" of 40-50,000 years ago (i.e. the "theory" is without merit). Dragons in China are considered good luck ... how do we explain that? Boys born in the Year of the Dragon are considered fortunate and referred to as "Dragon Boys". Hmmm. Just doesn't work for me so this one gets hoisted over the rail of the GOOD SHIP SPECULATION.

[Barracuda]

I hate to sound like Arch, but if the myth existed before recorded history, how would we know about it?

LOL! Just kidding! Sorry, I couldn't resist!

[Beagle]

http://library.thinkquest.org/05aug/017 ... dragon.htm

It has been at least 6,000 years since dragon came into being.

Barracuda, it would seem that the dragon myth existed at the dawn of history. Prehistory is an unknown.

The story of Beowulf is thought to represent a Dragon, as did other Celtic lore. I may go get those links I think.

[Barracuda]

I still think the idea that we carrying physiological baggage from the stone age is a valid one.

I think the idea that humans "have evolved" is an arrogant one. Hopefully, we are still evolving.

How could humans as a species have evolved fast enough to keep up with the changes of the last century?

[Barracuda]

And another stray thought.....I have seen Anacondas that were 15 feet long and weighed over 300#. It was pretty damn impressive.

I wonder how large was the largest snake that ever lived?

I think it would have easily been large enough to snack on poor little HSS.

[Cognito]

I think the idea that humans "have evolved" is an arrogant one. Hopefully, we are still evolving.

How could humans as a species have evolved fast enough to keep up with the changes of the last century?

'Cuda, I agree with your statement. But be sure to distinguish between genetic evolution (hard-wiring) versus cultural evolution. I doubt we are evolving genetically one way or the other. On the contrary, it is more probable that humans would be slightly devolving genetically at this point.

Humans as a species can keep up with the changes of the last century easily since we only create those changes that hard-wiring would allow in the first place. My genetics are R1b1/U5a (Cro Magnon), similar to someone walking around Europe 35,000 years ago. They had the capacity to be as developed as someone today, but not the opportunity (Neanderthals to fight, sabers to kill, caves to defend, etc.).

[marduk]

Barracuda, it would seem that the dragon myth existed at the dawn of history. Prehistory is an unknown

but the dragon itself didn't exist at that point
the word dragon didn't even exist until 1220CE
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=dragon
so in this case what you are talking about Beagle are really sea serpents
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_dragon

There are four major Dragon Kings, representing each of the four seas: the East Sea (corresponding to the East China Sea), the South Sea (corresponding to the South China Sea), the West Sea (sometimes seen as the Indian Ocean and beyond), and the North Sea (sometimes seen as Lake Baikal).

the first Dragons mentioned in any ancient chinese texts are all water dragons
as are the ones from the ANE
the thing you think of as a dragon (wings/fire etc) was popularised along with the name by the Christian church when it stopped calling satan a serpent and started calling him the great red dragon instead
after this they started the crap about St george and the dragon and St Patricks and the serpents and popularised the old legend of St Columba and the loch ness monster.
Dragons and their original form serpents represented paganism so they needed a metaphor to claim themselves superior

even the ones you remember from Ancient greek myth easily betray their watery origins
take for instance the hydra popular for having more heads than sense
what did you think the name Hydra is derived from
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=hydra

[Cognito]

what did you think the name Hydra is derived from?

That must be why I hydrate before sprinting ...

[Minimalist]

How could humans as a species have evolved fast enough to keep up with the changes of the last century?

Who says we have even come close?

[Guest]

it would seem that the dragon myth existed at the dawn of history

i read a bit of your link and can agree with what it is saying, even though the english word 'dragon came much later, the chinese word would have been around for a long time.

dragons are very big here in the far east even in korea we see some sort of design of the dragon throughout history.

i must say that though it is possible that the original dragon was a sea serpant; if you look at beagle's link you can see the artist's conception reflect that idea.

but agian semantics is useful to an extent as in the case of the word -dinosaur - other words used were - bohemoth - for one . so i am guessing but maybe there were other english words that would have been used to present the idea of a dragon.

I hate to sound like Arch,

no offense taken

[stan]

It certainly feels like the fear of snakes and spiders is hard wiired.

[Beagle]

but agian semantics is useful to an extent as in the case of the word -dinosaur - other words used were - bohemoth - for one . so i am guessing but maybe there were other english words that would have been used to present the idea of a dragon

No doubt about it. We have done this before. Even in the Americas, the earliest myths include dragon creatures. I don't want to wade through past threads but we've mentioned the many Native American representations of Dragons - even evident in their art.

It is a world wide phenomenon and is still not entirely understood I guess. And from what I can tell, Dragon lore came to Europe lastly.

There have been many books, TV shows and documentaries about Dragons.

I have never felt personally that the Bible spoke of an actual Dragon.