DBC Pierre - The Last Aztec

[War Arrow]

Just seen a trailer for this. It'll be on Channel 4 next Thursday at 9pm. I don't know how much use that info is to non-UK readers (in other words, most of you I guess) but then I don't know, maybe you get UK channels on cable over there.
Anyway, whilst I have my doubts about this sort of programme where a historical subject gets a going over from a non-academic big name, I have high hopes for this. Anthony Gormley (the sculptor) did a great show on the Royal Academy Aztecs exhibition a few years back - got all his facts straight, and came at it from an interesting angle. 'Literary bad boy' (as the Channel 4 site calls him) DBC Pierre was bought up in Mexico, so he at least has a bit of an understanding of the culture. Plus I like his writing a lot. Hopefully, nothing can go wrong.
Anyway, he can hardly do a worse job than Michael bloody Wood a few years back.

By the way. I can't get any of these buttons to work. The italics, bold text, emoticons - all dead. Is that the site or is it my computer?

[Minimalist]

Bold seems to work as do italics and underlining.

Look in "Options" in the lower corner of the reply screen and make sure that HTML, BBCode and Smilies are ON.

[Barracuda]

WarArrow, Have you spent time in Mexico?

I have only been to Baja and Juarez City, but I spent some time living in Colombia

[Guest]

whilst I have my doubts about this sort of programme where a historical subject gets a going over from a non-academic big name

i don't have a big problem with this as maybe others would simply because the big name academic may be lost in his own world and only speak in lofty tones using words he is used to and forget to simplify the content for those not as educated as he would.

it would be nice if the academic would be given equal input so the show doesn't degrade into a 'naked archaeologist' or a 'naked truth' concept where buffoonery replaces intellect.

By the way. I can't get any of these buttons to work. The italics, bold text, emoticons - all dead. Is that the site or is it my computer?

remember to highlight the words you want to emphasize before clicking the buttons.

[stan]

Has anyone heard any poop on the new Mel Gibson film about the Aztecs?

[Beagle]

I didn't even know there was one Stan.

[Sam Salmon]

Has anyone heard any poop on the new Mel Gibson film about the Aztecs?

Quite looking forward to it for the background alone.

[Minimalist]

Sort of gives a whole new meaning to BraveHeart.

[Sam Salmon]

Forgot to add-it's a film about The Mayans
http://apocalypto.movies.go.com/

[Guest]

Forgot to add-it's a film about The Mayans

Has anyone heard any poop on the new Mel Gibson film about the Aztecs?

i remember reading that the Olmecs, the mayans and the aztecs could have been the same people or risen out of the ruins of each previous dynasty.

what have others heard about his theory?

[War Arrow]

Min - thanks for the advice. I'll see what happens. Aha. It's working!

WarArrow, Have you spent time in Mexico?

I try to visit yearly, although I didn't manage it this time. I stay in Mexico City as most of the sites I'm interested in are near. Couple of times I've been to Oaxaca, though my 'holy grail' is Mexcaltitlan on the Pacific coast which is commonly cited as one of the better contenders for the original mythic (and therefore possibly entirely fictional) Aztlan, from which the Aztecs migrated before becoming the Mexica (according to the sources).
I'll go next year. England's okay, but fifty-two weeks in a row is too long to go without a top-up of decent climate.

it would be nice if the academic would be given equal input so the show doesn't degrade into a 'naked archaeologist' or a 'naked truth' concept where buffoonery replaces intellect.

Quite agree, Arch, although once in a blue moon there are exceptions and I'm hoping DBC won't let me down. Slightly different thing, but DH Lawrence's archeology/anthropology credentials are non-existent, though he nevertheless made some quite inciteful observations about Mexican culture in 'The Plumed Serpent'. Some times someone coming from a completely different angle can raise interesting questions.

The Mel Gibson film is new to me. On one hand I've got my doubts, but on the other I'm completely sucked in by the clips on that site. Oh boy!

i remember reading that the Olmecs, the mayans and the aztecs could have been the same people or risen out of the ruins of each previous dynasty.

It seems unlikely according to the language streams involved. As you'd expect, there's always a degree of dispute, but the Olmecs seem to have been the parent culture (1500 BCish). It's suggested that they spoke Mixe-Zoque (as may also have the much later Teotihuacanos) although I have no idea how that particular conclusion was arrived at. Mayan civilisation arose later (BC/AD border or thereabouts, with cultural infuences from both the Olmecs and the Zapotecs). The theory runs that both groups here belonged to the greater Macro-Mayan language stream. The Aztecs (or rather the Mexica, Acolhua, Tecpanecs etc) arrived much later (a trickle turning to a stream around 600 ADish) with migrants coming down from the north bringing the Uto-Aztecan languages with them (most of this is cribbed from Eric Wolf's 'Sons of the Shaking Earth' (University of Chicago Press). Obviously it's a lot more complicated than that, and there's some truth in the model of later cultures arising from the remains of (well, in the wake of) earlier equivalents. Although these peoples are related in so much as they're all within the Amerind language group (as opposed to Na-Dene or Eskimo-Aluet) there's a lot of diversity there, too much to really think of them as directly related. But having said that, the degree of cross-cultural fertilisation that went on makes it very debatable about quite where you draw the line between one culture and the next. If you want to be picky, there's even an argument for describing each town as its own distinct culture. There's a lot of Deities appearing in both the Mexican and Mayan pantheon, ever further afield. Karl Taube, for example, seems to think one Teotihuacan Goddess is directly descended (so to speak) from the Spider Grandmother figure found in the mythology of the American South-West.

In conclusion, it's big and very confusing.

[Guest]

In conclusion, it's big and very confusing.

thanks for that explanation, as you were 'talking' i was reminded of the study that said the three 'nations' [for lack of a better word] had similarities in their sacrifices, (style and victims etc.), their religion and actually the calendar.

the calander was not so much a mayan invention but really an assumption from the olmec system




***as a side-- sorry if i post too much, i don't get a lot of english conversation here and rarely do i get it at a high level, most of it is at an elemetery level. foreigners aren't much help either as most are from the opposite of the top of the barrel quality and participate in that american fad of shortening words down to one syllable {thanks espn} . quality of the language is being degraded and finding people who actually use it right is difficult at best.

[War Arrow]

thanks for that explanation, as you were 'talking' i was reminded of the study that said the three 'nations' [for lack of a better word] had similarities in their sacrifices, (style and victims etc.), their religion and actually the calendar.

the calander was not so much a mayan invention but really an assumption from the olmec system.

That's pretty much my understanding of it too.

sorry if i post too much, i don't get a lot of english conversation here and rarely do i get it at a high level, most of it is at an elemetery level. foreigners aren't much help either as most are from the opposite of the top of the barrel quality and participate in that american fad of shortening words down to one syllable {thanks espn} . quality of the language is being degraded and finding people who actually use it right is difficult at best.

Don't worry. It's a pleasure. My excuse is that I don't really know anyone with the same level of interest in either history or archaeology as you find on this forum. Thus ten/twenty years of keeping quiet has meant I now find it impossible to shut up every once in a while. I've got a horrible feeling that I can no longer effectively communicate without bringing Mexico into the conversation.

"Hey, dude. I just got the new Limp Bizkit CD. Man, it rocks!"
"Well interstingly enough, the preclassic settlers at Tlapacoya once blah blah blah..."

[Minimalist]

"Hey, dude. I just got the new Limp Bizkit CD. Man, it rocks!"
"Well interstingly enough, the preclassic settlers at Tlapacoya once blah blah blah..."

The girls must just fall all over you.

[stan]

So, War Arrow, why don't you start a new thread that deals with your concerns or interests abut Mexico? What's on your mind?