Sex in the palaeolithic period

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 11:11 am

Thanks for the offer Ishtar, but no thanks. I try to now to avoid any such contacts, when you 'see' someone's early death the fun vanishes, PDQ!

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 11:37 am

Ishtar wrote:You need to be protected and guided by your spirit guides, ...

Protected.
At the risk of throwing this thread into a flame, I find this comment interesting in the light of the Judeo-Christian world-view that evil spirits exist and are actively seeking to lead the unwary away from truth. Such world-view warns against the activities you are engaging in. Of course when such warnings are carried to the ultimate extreme by over-zealous believers the result is witch-trials.

Still, I find it interesting that Judeo-Christian belief in evil spirits suggests there is alternative reality in which spiritual warfare is being conducted and we are the unfortunate pawns.

Comments?

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:02 pm

In my own case FM I have had 'contact' where I 'saw' the future, (names, dates, events) and have witness to back my case.
What does it prove? I have no idea!
What I will say is it has scared my wife and I now keep my mouth shut!

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:31 pm

Digit wrote:What does it prove? I have no idea!

Perhaps it proves that from time to time we catch glimpses of things beyond the measure of modern science, I don't know, though some would say its biological.

Just curious, did this happen out of the blue or were you under duress or illness?

Ishtar · Post by **Ishtar** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:45 pm

Forum Monk wrote:
Ishtar wrote:You need to be protected and guided by your spirit guides, ...
Protected.
At the risk of throwing this thread into a flame, I find this comment interesting in the light of the Judeo-Christian world-view that evil spirits exist and are actively seeking to lead the unwary away from truth. Such world-view warns against the activities you are engaging in. Of course when such warnings are carried to the ultimate extreme by over-zealous believers the result is witch-trials.

Still, I find it interesting that Judeo-Christian belief in evil spirits suggests there is alternative reality in which spiritual warfare is being conducted and we are the unfortunate pawns.

Comments?

Actually, the Judaeo-Christian belief in evil spirits stems not from a war between good and evil with the Jews as the good guys and ther rest of the world as the bad guys. Satan, who in the OT starts off an angel who obstructs (in order to further God's cause) gradually evolves into the Prince of Darkness as The Enemy Within, in other words, Jews criticising other Jews, as historically, this was at a time when schism was fighting schism - first the Maccabean revolt and then the internecine fighting before the 66 CE war when the Romans sacked Jerusalem.

I think I'm right in saying that Satan first appears in the OT in Numbers as obstructing Balaam's way, to prevent him from harm. Even in Job, Satan is God's faithful servant, only acting as an adversary to Job with God's permission.

In Hebrew, the Biblical terms "the satan" describes an adverserial role. It is not necessarily a particular character. The root stn means "one who opposes, obstructs or acts as an adversary." The Greek term, diabolos, which later became 'devil', means "one who throws something across someone's path".

The planet Saturn also has this quality in astrology. It is the most testing planet to have in your sign.

Shamans don't believe in evil - they just call it "energy in the wrong place". For instance, if you were fording a river in Africa by foot and a crocodile came up and bit your leg off, you wouldn't call the crocodile evil - the crocodile was just doing its thing and it is you who were in the wrong place at the wrong time and didn't take precautions.

This is where the protection comes in. A shaman travels in many worlds and because he doesn't want his leg bitten off by a crocodile (or some such like) he has spirit guides to protect him. It is nothing to do with Satan, the Devil or evil. It is just common sense.

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 12:56 pm

I've always been sceptical about some forms of the paranormal Monk. For example, does a medium speak with the dead or in some manner read your mind?
Under duress? No, always the precise opposite, relaxed.
One reason why I have never wished to broaden my experiences is, that like the Delphic oracle, I have always found it to a be double edged weapon.
For example, early in my marriage I told my wife that we would have 4 children, my wife was delighted as she loves children.
We have 2 children, my wife miscarried with twins!
My recently diagnosed cancer was no surprise as I've known since my late teens that it would hit me. What I have never known is whether or no it would kill me. As it happens I have just been informed that I am clear of cancer and can look forward to a few more years.
I used to read palms as a party trick, now I don't know a head line from a neck line, but with a person's hand in mine I have seen their past and their future, and how do you tell a person that they will be dead within 3 years!
I have read only 2 people's palms since that unhappy time, my wife's, as I said above, and a friend with liver cancer. His prognosis was poor, I told him otherwise and 20 years on he is still with us, but with such 'contact' comes enormous responsability.
And what if you get it wrong?
Some call such abilities a gift, I beg to differ.

Ishtar · Post by **Ishtar** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 1:20 pm

Digit wrote: ..you 'see' someone's early death the fun vanishes, PDQ!

Yeah...I'm not in this for fun.

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 1:50 pm

Yeah...I'm not in this for fun.

But how would you handle it?

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 1:54 pm

Ishtar wrote:Actually, the Judaeo-Christian belief in evil spirits stems not from a war between good and evil with the Jews as the good guys and ther rest of the world as the bad guys. Satan, who in the OT starts off an angel who obstructs (in order to further God's cause) gradually evolves into the Prince of Darkness as The Enemy Within, in other words, Jews criticising other Jews, as historically, this was at a time when schism was fighting schism - first the Maccabean revolt and then the internecine fighting before the 66 CE war when the Romans sacked Jerusalem.

I think I'm right in saying that Satan first appears in the OT in Numbers as obstructing Balaam's way, to prevent him from harm. Even in Job, Satan is God's faithful servant, only acting as an adversary to Job with God's permission.

In Hebrew, the Biblical terms "the satan" describes an adverserial role. It is not necessarily a particular character. The root stn means "one who opposes, obstructs or acts as an adversary." The Greek term, diabolos, which later became 'devil', means "one who throws something across someone's path".

I agree with a lot of this, as according to the earliest traditions within the Abrahamic faiths, Satan was originally an angel and a "wanderer". His "transgression" occurred when he attempted to equate himself with God and hence his expulsion from the presence of God. In the post Christian age he is termed a "roaring lion seeking whom he may devour". So yeah, like the crocodile, he does what he does. So maybe the terminology - evil - is not correct in the religious sense of the word. But if a guy gets his leg bit off, even by accident, some cultures say evil has befallen him. It's obviously not a good or desireous thing.

Ishtar · Post by **Ishtar** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 2:18 pm

Forum Monk wrote: I agree with a lot of this, as according to the earliest traditions within the Abrahamic faiths, Satan was originally an angel and a "wanderer". His "transgression" occurred when he attempted to equate himself with God and hence his expulsion from the presence of God. In the post Christian age he is termed a "roaring lion seeking whom he may devour". So yeah, like the crocodile, he does what he does. So maybe the terminology - evil - is not correct in the religious sense of the word. But if a guy gets his leg bit off, even by accident, some cultures say evil has befallen him. It's obviously not a good or desireous thing.

Yeah, shit still happens. It's just that it's not evil, or inspired by a being with horns and a pitchfork who lives in Dante's ninth circle of Hell. It's just "energy in the wrong place." The only devil we have is the enemy within man's mind, the dark side that erupts when he hasn't the courage to face it and own it.

Before the Judaeo-Christian tradition, most cultures had a sort of shamanic belief system in which there were three worlds: the lower world, the middle world and the upper world. These worlds had (and stil do have) different characteristics, but they are not Heaven, Hell and Purgatory. That set up was invented by the JC religion. In fact, I would go so far as to say that the Judaeo-Christians invented the Devil.

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 2:36 pm

Correct. The Devil is a christian (not Jewish) concept although there are parallels in many of the world religions.

Apparantly Hinduism also believes in "evil" entities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asuras

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 3:02 pm

Are you differentiating between the Devil and Satan Monk?

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 3:24 pm

Digit wrote:Are you differentiating between the Devil and Satan Monk?

Yup.

Ishtar · Post by **Ishtar** » Sat Nov 10, 2007 4:03 pm

Forum Monk wrote:
Apparantly Hinduism also believes in "evil" entities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asuras

Well, it's the same with Hinduism as it is with Christianity. Gods or angels can become devils overnight to suit a particular political agenda.

The Asuras you mention, although named as demons in the later Puranas, were seen as good spirits (devas) in the earlier Rig-veda. In fact, one of the hymns to Indra (one of the chief Vedic gods) refers to him as chief of the Asuras.

Religions invent demons and devils when they want to scare people. It's a bit like the Weapons of Mass Destruction!

john · Post by **john** » Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:47 pm

"When Adam delved

and Eve span

who was then

the better gentleman?"

John Ball

j