The Fall of Civilizations

[Frank Harrist]

I think that civilizations fall because people finally come to realize that civilization sux unless you're one of the elite...the rich people, the aristocrats. The lower class realizes that it's existence is solely for the purpose of making the upper class more and more confortable and ever more powerful. The elite lose touch with the common man and begin to feel that they are somehow more than human, more than these peasants they control. Eventually the lower class gets fed up with this situation and they just walk away from it all and drop off the grid, so to speak, leaving the former upper class to fend for themselves. That's how civilizations die. I can see it happening now.

[Minimalist]

Happy New Year, Frank.

Certainly that's part of it but for a true change in an entire civilization there has to be something to take its place. It seems that revolutions tend to re-create a semblance of what existed before because, let's face it, humans are not very imaginative.

[Frank Harrist]

I'm thinking of the Maya and nations like that that just sort of petered out. I think the people just got fed up and walked away. They went back to nature, back to a simple life living off the land and depending on no government for nothing. Every family went to it's own little microcosm of existence independent from the nation as a whole. With nobody to wipe their asses for them the elite were forced to do the same or starve to death and I'm sure many of them
did starve.

[Tiompan]

Every family went to it's own little microcosm of existence independent from the nation as a whole. With nobody to wipe their asses for them the elite were forced to do the same or starve to death and I'm sure many of them
did starve.

Then the indepenent family was picked on by a "big man " and his chums who eventually became one type of "elite " until the independant families organised themselves to combat this thus creating another elite and embers of another civilisation .

George

[Frank Harrist]

And the deadly cycle continues.

[Minimalist]

I'm thinking of the Maya and nations like that that just sort of petered out.

There is still a lot of speculation about what happened to the Maya.

[Frank Harrist]

Yeah that's just me speculatin'.

[kbs2244]

In Collapse, Jared Diamond lays most of the blame on environmental things.

But he admits there are many reasons for the environmental problems.
Some top down, some bottom up, and some shared by the various parts of the local society.

Some societies became so top heavy that the “working class” couldn’t support it any more and either rebelled or “voted with their feet” and faded away.

Sometimes the “working class” ignored the enlightened advice if the higher placed and better educated who had a longer point of view if the problems.

And sometimes the warning signs were ignored by all involved.

[Frank Harrist]

"enlightened advice if the higher placed and better educated "
BULLSHIT!

[Minimalist]

"enlightened advice if the higher placed and better educated "
BULLSHIT!

Uh, yeah... as in " You lot keep picking that there cotton while we sit up here in the manor house having our mint julips."

Eventually, that gets old.

[Frank Harrist]

Screw the 1%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Minimalist]

You sound like me.

[kbs2244]

“enlightened advice if the higher placed and better educated "

I threw that out to see who would take the bait.
If any of you have one semester beyond 12th grade gradation you have more “education” than I do.

But it wasn’t my idea, it was Diamonds.

[Frank Harrist]

Well, I didn't think you were like that, KBS (sorry, I can't remember your name), but that remark really pissed me off. I'm glad you were not serious. I was ready to lead the lynch mob. We don't need no stinkin' bankers! (or any other rich fat cat assholes.)