Commentary on the Peopling of the New World

The Western Hemisphere. General term for the Americas following their discovery by Europeans, thus setting them in contradistinction to the Old World of Africa, Europe, and Asia.

Moderators: Minimalist, MichelleH

Post Reply
User avatar
circumspice
Posts: 1068
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:10 pm

Commentary on the Peopling of the New World

Post by circumspice » Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:43 am

Long, fairly in-depth article on the peopling of the New World by Smithsonian Magazine. The comments section is as interesting as the article itself. Enjoy.


https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science- ... 180973739/
"Damn with faint praise, assent with civil leer, and, without sneering, teach the rest to sneer." ~ Alexander Pope

Minimalist
Forum Moderator
Posts: 15856
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:09 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: Commentary on the Peopling of the New World

Post by Minimalist » Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:26 pm

Nice article, Circ.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

User avatar
Cognito
Posts: 1615
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:37 am
Location: Southern California

Re: Commentary on the Peopling of the New World

Post by Cognito » Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:33 pm

Thanks for the fascinating article, Spice! It is interesting that the area's isostatic rebound can be calculated so accurately with many of the shorelines now being about the same level as 20kya. A 400 foot sea level rise with a 400 foot rebound.
Ted Goebel, associate director of the Center for the Study of the First Americans at Texas A&M University, says that recent developments in genetics, coupled with the work of Fedje and his colleagues, have spurred his desire to search for early Americans in far-flung reaches of Alaska, including tributaries of the Yukon River and parts of the Seward Peninsula.

“Five years ago I would have told you that you were full of crap if you were suggesting that there were humans in Alaska or far Northeast Asia 20,000 or 25,000 years ago,” says Goebel. “But the more we hear from the geneticists, the more we really have to be thinking outside that box.”
I certainly hope the attitude among archaeologists is changing. :shock:

Boat voyages have been documented in Japan from 30kya. With the Japanese current flowing east to British Columbia and then south to California, it would feed an unintended, slow and continued migration of mariners to North America simply by accident. Just add a few women to the mix and watch the population boom! :D
Natural selection favors the paranoid

Jeff
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:15 am

Re: Commentary on the Peopling of the New World

Post by Jeff » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:38 am

Where are the genetics? If people entered from Asia and Europe, where is the European DNA? I concede that people could have reached the Americas from ways other than the land bridge. But where is the genetic evidence for a European migration or African migration into the new world? We do have genetic evidence of an Asian migration.


User avatar
circumspice
Posts: 1068
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:10 pm

Re: Commentary on the Peopling of the New World

Post by circumspice » Tue Feb 02, 2021 4:46 am

Both of these articles date from 2013. That's pretty elderly in the scientific arena. Are there any more up to date articles concerning this subject?
"Damn with faint praise, assent with civil leer, and, without sneering, teach the rest to sneer." ~ Alexander Pope

LacamasMorass
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2020 9:59 am

Re: Commentary on the Peopling of the New World

Post by LacamasMorass » Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:07 am

As archaeologists we have to be careful with the word,"peopling". We really weren't people until the modern age. Up until then we were part tree dwelling fanatic, and part tranquil farmer. I like to think of an\cient migration as a style of driven relocation. Where the inhabitants of an area proven to be supportive to the clan were decimated by some type of deluge, either natural or conflicting. I say this because if you ask any archaeologist in the Americas, they will tell you that the artifacts they are finding are much much older than they expected, and I can tell you from first hand experience that all you have to do is find one and you know instantly what they are talking about. The peopling theory is a great step forward in the science of the Humanities, and I always try to follow the science. But when they told me that Americans were all a species of Homo Ergaster decendant, I had to remind them of how many species of hominid there really are, and at the keen ability of hominids to suffice, evolve and defend their clan.

The Lacamas Morass is so unique in its collection, that it would be nearly impossible to find a comparison site elsewhere in the world, so I have had to use the science to further my study. This has not been well excepted by peirs and I have been struggling to make it come together. Please remember that "parallel evolution" is a human thing, and we are the only proof of it.

shawomet
Posts: 389
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:14 am

Re: Commentary on the Peopling of the New World

Post by shawomet » Sat Feb 27, 2021 12:27 pm

circumspice wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 4:46 am
Both of these articles date from 2013. That's pretty elderly in the scientific arena. Are there any more up to date articles concerning this subject?
Well, I’ve never come across later papers that overturned that study. If anybody has, I’d love to know. Lots of articles about it in the 2013-14 time frame, and this article from 2016 describes it briefly in the “History gets complicated” section. I don’t really follow genetic studies, it’s way over my head. I’m lucky I can understand my own DNA results. If this study was overturned, however, I would expect an internet search to establish that, and no searches I’ve conducted has brought up any studies calling it into question.

https://carlzimmer.com/eske-willerslev- ... th-dna-50/

See also this Wikipedia entry:

MA-1( my note: MA-1 is the Mal’ta boy in question) is the only known example of basal Y-DNA R* (R-M207*) – that is, the only member of haplogroup R* that did not belong to haplogroups R1, R2 or secondary subclades of these. The mitochondrial DNA of MA-1 belonged to an unresolved subclade of haplogroup U.[7]

The term Ancient North Eurasian (ANE) has been given in genetic literature to an ancestral component that represents descent from the people similar to the Mal'ta–Buret' culture or a population closely related to them.[4][8] The ANE population is considered to have been "basal to modern day western Eurasians" but not especially related to east Asians, and suggested to have perhaps originally lived Europe or Western Asia.[9][10] According to Lazaridis et al. 2014, the common ancestor of ANEs and WHGs (western European hunter-gatherers) separated from eastern Eurasians around 40,000 BC, and ANEs split from WHGs around 22,000 BC[11] (ANE is also described as a lineage "which is deeply related to Paleolithic/Mesolithic hunter-gatherers in Europe...").[12] According to a study by Kanazawa-Kiriyama et al. (2017), MA-1/Mal'ta may have also carried an East Eurasian-related component (around 21% of his ancestry), with the rest being West Eurasian-related.[13]

A people similar to MA1 and Afontova Gora were important genetic contributors to Native Americans, Siberians, Europeans, Caucasians, Central Asians, with smaller contributions to Middle Easterners and some East Asians.[14] Lazaridis et al. (2016) notes "a cline of ANE ancestry across the east-west extent of Eurasia."[15] According to a 2016 study, it was found that the global maximum of ANE ancestry occurs in modern-day Kets, Mansi, Native Americans, and Selkups.[4] Additionally it has been reported in ancient Bronze-age-steppe Yamnaya and Afanasevo cultures.[3] Between 14 and 38 percent of Native American ancestry may originate from gene flow from the Mal'ta–Buret' people, while the other geneflow in Native Americans appears to have an Eastern Eurasian origin. [2]

MA1 is also related to two older Upper Paleolithic Siberian individuals found near the Yana river called Ancient North Siberians (ANS) and to Tianyuan man from Upper Paleolithic China.[16] (See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mal%27ta% ... 27_culture)

User avatar
circumspice
Posts: 1068
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:10 pm

Re: Commentary on the Peopling of the New World

Post by circumspice » Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:45 am

Thanks shawomet for the links! Interesting reading!
"Damn with faint praise, assent with civil leer, and, without sneering, teach the rest to sneer." ~ Alexander Pope

Post Reply