Dendrochoronology Dates Norse in Canada to 1021

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Dendrochoronology Dates Norse in Canada to 1021

Post by Minimalist » Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:48 pm

https://www.heritagedaily.com/2021/10/s ... cas/141730
The study published in the journal Nature, focused on the Norse site of L’Anse aux Meadows in the Canadian province of Newfoundland and Labrador, which served as an exploratory base and winter camp.

Archaeologists theorise that the settlement supported between 30 to 160 inhabitants, but the lack of burials and agriculture suggests that the site was only a temporary settlement before being abandoned.
The exact year of AD 1021 was determinable because a massive solar storm occurred in AD 992 that produced a distinct radiocarbon signal in tree rings from the following year.

Associate Professor Michael Dee from the University of Groningen said: “The distinct uplift in radiocarbon production that occurred between AD 992 and 993 has been detected in tree-ring archives from all over the world. Each of the wooden objects exhibited this signal og29 growth rings (years) before the bark edge.”

“Finding the signal from the solar storm 29 growth rings in the bark allowed us to conclude that the cutting activity took place in the year AD 1021 AD” says Dr Margot Kuitems from the University of Groningen.
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Re: Dendrochoronology Dates Norse in Canada to 1021

Post by circumspice » Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:31 pm

I guess that one can assume that prior to the discovery of wood with the og29 signal there was no other way to reliably date the settlement? What is the history of the og29 signal? Dendrochronology goes back quite a way as a method of dating a site. There is an index or library of tree ring info that goes way back. It's been used to date much older objects. So, what gives?
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Re: Dendrochoronology Dates Norse in Canada to 1021

Post by Minimalist » Thu Oct 21, 2021 2:15 pm

I don't think that is what they are saying. The OG29 signal stands out like a sore thumb in the tree rings which helps to identify the precise pattern and hence the number of years.

The only thing that bothers me is if you look at a photo of the area of L'Anse aux Meadows it is not forested. How far did they bring the wood?

Image


If it was meant to be a temporary settlement, why go through all that trouble when they could just as easily have built sod houses? Sod they had. Trees? Not so much.

Since both c14 and dendrochronology only tell us when the tree was cut down there could be a gap between the felling and the building. But probably not a significant gap.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Re: Dendrochoronology Dates Norse in Canada to 1021

Post by circumspice » Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:54 am

The land could have had more tree cover 1000 years ago. Or they could have imported the lumber. What I was getting at was that the other means of dating were fairly accurate. This latest date using dendrochronology dialled it in by only a few years. It's not like the age difference between Clovis sites & far older sites. (20k years +/-) Who was getting a boner over dates of around a decade difference? It seems somewhat pointless.
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Re: Dendrochoronology Dates Norse in Canada to 1021

Post by Minimalist » Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:17 am

Maybe. Of course the 51st parallel runs across what is virtually the border of the US/Canada and from this photo of Montana it looks like prairie out there, too. L'Anse aux Meadows is somewhat north of the 51st parallel but, you know, close enough for government work.

Image

Your other question always leads to why do scientists study anything? I suppose there is always a quest for more precision but this only tells us when the tree was cut down.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

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Re: Dendrochoronology Dates Norse in Canada to 1021

Post by circumspice » Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:25 pm

Looking at the reconstruction photos, it looks like they used the wood as a framework only & used quite a lot of sod in the construction of those longhouses. I suppose that the archaeological finds at that site supports the modern reconstruction...
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Re: Dendrochoronology Dates Norse in Canada to 1021

Post by circumspice » Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:13 am

Looking at the pics, it seems that the exterior walls are fairly short. So I guess that the interior floors are below grade? Lots of other buildings were built with sunken floors, like some prehistoric dwellings... Pit houses?

Edit: I fondly remember some of the castles & castle ruins that I explored when I was in Germany. The doorways were much lower than modern doorways, you had to duck through many of them. In one castle ruin that I explored, there was an interior hallway that most of the men in my group had to hunch down in to walk through. I'm 5'8" tall & the top of my head grazed the arched center of the ceiling in that hallway. It was claustrophobic, both narrow & low. I took pics of a man who was barely 6 feet tall, all hunched over with both hands on the opposing walls of the hallway to keep his balance. He was extremely uncomfortable & complained loudly when we had to go back through it to leave the ruins. What bothered me the most were the stairways... Very narrow & steep, with no rail. The wall was always situated to the stair climber's right so that a right handed swordsman was at a distinct disadvantage when trying to go from the ground level to the quarters upstairs. It was totally a tactical type of architecture. However, most of the castles that I explored were Palatinate castles. (Therefore more modern) The very first castle I got to see was one commissioned by Frederick l Barbarossa. It was in ruins, having been attacked & conquered, then demolished. There was some heroic story about the last 'prince' who had held that castle. I did see some older castles though. They were little more than square towers with walls around an open space, situated up on a hill. The oldest castle ruin that I saw was built sometime around A.D. 800 or thereabouts. It was shockingly small. I think that I had confused castles with palaces. The oldest cathedral that I saw was the one that Charlemagne built in Aachen. It was completed around A.D. 800. His coronation as Holy Roman Emperor took place there in A.D. 800. I got to see quite a lot of Roman architecture in Germany too. Like the Porta Nigra in Trier. Germany has a lot to see, from all periods of time.
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Re: Dendrochoronology Dates Norse in Canada to 1021

Post by Minimalist » Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:16 pm

My first experience with that was at the 1964 World's Fair and a replica of Columbus' Santa Maria. As I went to go down a stairway to the lower deck I found that my heel barely fit on the step. A worker, in 15th century sailor's garb, saw the look on my face and said "people were a lot smaller then."
I turned around and went down the stairs backwards so I didn't break my neck.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin

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Re: Dendrochoronology Dates Norse in Canada to 1021

Post by circumspice » Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:32 pm

Going up, then back down those stairs was pretty scary. There was nothing to hold on to & the whole ground floor was stone, so there would have been a splat at the bottom if any of us had fallen. However, I got a kind of thrill when I placed my hand on the wall to help my balance... It was weird to think that generations of people had placed their hands on those walls exactly the same way I had 1200 years ago. It's hard to wrap your mind around the concept of buildings that old & older when Americans practically worship a building that's barely a century old. In Germany & France, they think nothing of a building that 350 years old. They just think of it as musty & cramped & hard to heat or cool.
"Damn with faint praise, assent with civil leer, and, without sneering, teach the rest to sneer." ~ Alexander Pope

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