Medicine Wheels On Canadian Prairies in The News

The Western Hemisphere. General term for the Americas following their discovery by Europeans, thus setting them in contradistinction to the Old World of Africa, Europe, and Asia.

Moderators: MichelleH, Minimalist, JPeters

User avatar
Sam Salmon
Posts: 349
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:30 am
Location: Vancouver-by-the-Sea

Medicine Wheels On Canadian Prairies in The News

Post by Sam Salmon »

It's an old story to readers here-a lone researcher with an idea and the Club ranged against him.
I'm reserving judgement until the next life.
8)


Canada's Stonehenge shout the headlines!

Typical photos Here


Canada's Stonehenge


BOB WEBER-The Canadian Press-January 29, 2009 at 3:54 PM EST

EDMONTON — An academic maverick is challenging conventional wisdom on Canada's prehistory by claiming an archeological site in southern Alberta is really a vast, open-air sun temple with a precise 5,000-year-old calendar predating England's Stonehenge and Egypt's pyramids.

Mainstream archeologists consider the rock-encircled cairn to be just another medicine wheel left behind by early aboriginals. But a new book by retired University of Alberta professor Gordon Freeman says it is in fact the centre of a 26-square-kilometre stone “lacework” that marks the changing seasons and the phases of the moon with greater accuracy than our current calendar.

“Genius existed on the prairies 5,000 years ago,” says Mr. Freeman, the widely published former head of the university's physical and theoretical chemistry department.

Mr. Freeman's fascination with prairie prehistory dates back to his Saskatchewan boyhood. He and his father would comb the short grasses of the plains in search of artifacts exposed by the scouring wind. That curiosity never left him and he returned to it as he prepared to retire from active teaching.

Looking for a hobby, he asked a friend with an interest in history to suggest a few intriguing sites to visit. On a warm late-August day in 1980, that list drew him to what he has come to call Canada's Stonehenge, which is also the title of his book.

A central cairn atop one of a series of low hills overlooking the Bow River, about 70 kilometres east of Calgary, had been partially excavated in 1971 and dated at about 5,000 years old. But as he approached it, Freeman strongly felt there was much more there than previously thought.

“As we walked toward the hilltop, I saw all kinds of patterns in the rocks on the way up. As I walked around the hilltop, I could see patterns that I doubted very much were accidental.”

Mr. Freeman photographed what he saw and showed the images to archeologists. They told him the rocks, some of which weigh up to a tonne, had been randomly distributed by melting glaciers.

But those rocks and rock piles, Mr. Freeman said, had been “highly engineered,” shimmied and balanced and wedged in ways he couldn't believe were natural. And so began a magnificent obsession — 28 years of photographing the site in summer and winter, observing the alignment of rocks and how they coincided with the recurring patterns of sun, moon and stars.

Mr. Freeman estimates he and his wife Phyllis have spent a total of seven months living at the site. Twelve thousand photographs with precise times and dates are neatly catalogued in his files.

What he found:

The central cairn is surrounded by 28 radiating stone lines, four of which align with the cardinal points of the compass. Those lines are encircled by another ring of stones.

A few metres away lies a stone semicircle, with a large stone between it and the central cairn. The left edge of the semicircle lines up with both the central stone and the right edge of the cairn, and vice versa.

To Mr. Freeman, those features represent the sun, the crescent moon and the morning star.

As well, there are secondary cairns on nearby hills and rock assemblages that seem to correspond to constellations.

And after years of rising before dawn, in all seasons and weather, to carefully photograph the positions of the sun, Mr. Freeman found the rocks once thought to be simply strewn across the prairie instead mark the progression of the year with uncanny accuracy.

The rising and setting sun on both the longest and shortest days of the year lines up precisely with V-shaped sights in the temple's rocks. The spring and autumn equinoxes, when day and night are equal, are similarly marked. They are not the equinoxes of the Gregorian calendar currently used, however, but the true astronomical equinoxes.

Mr. Freeman is convinced the temple contains a lunar calendar as well, because the 28 rays radiating from the central cairn correspond to the length of the lunar cycle.

“I thought I would complete that study in a couple years,” says Mr. Freeman, a laughing, vigorous 78. “Twenty-eight years later we're still making discoveries.”

Mainstream archeology hasn't been exactly welcoming. Despite being highly regarded in his own field, Mr. Freeman says journals have rejected his papers and conferences have denied him a platform.

Professionals in any field resist interlopers from other disciplines and archeology is no exception, he says. But he suggests conventional wisdom can restrict insight.

“If you have preconceptions, you're never going to discover anything.”

Although he hasn't read Canada's Stonehenge, University of Alberta archeologist Jack Ives is familiar with Mr. Freeman's theories.

He says recent research suggests some astronomical knowledge developed in Central and South America flowed north to the plains, where it was adapted by people for their own purposes.

“There is some basis for thinking there was sophisticated astronomical knowledge,” says Mr. Ives.

But what exactly is manifested in the medicine wheels?

“They may certainly reflect solstices and equinoxes. How much more sophisticated beyond that has been a subject of debate.”

But Mr. Ives points out the terrain in question is an ancient glacial moraine, full of naturally occurring rocks.

“You have to be very careful about what you line up.”

Mr. Freeman, however, is convinced. He looks forward to the academic debate to come.

“I know my song well before I sing it,” he says, quoting Bob Dylan.

Meanwhile, Mr. Freeman hopes to use any publicity generated by his book to push for preservation of the site. Part of it is privately owned, but most is Crown land and open to both the energy industry and casual, possibly destructive, visitors.

“The place is so far away from anything that it's not adequately protected.”

Mr. Freeman is a man of science, trained to trust hard data and believe evidence over sensation. But after 28 years unravelling a message in mute stones, the wind in his hair and the sun on his face, absorbed in ancient mysteries, the site has come to evoke in him something akin to reverence.

“I can go down there with a headache and within a day everything is gone. It's just like a cure. There is something down there. I just don't know how to describe it.

“I just feel very comfortable there. I just feel comfortable.”
User avatar
Sam Salmon
Posts: 349
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:30 am
Location: Vancouver-by-the-Sea

Post by Sam Salmon »

Another general interest link re:Medicine Wheels Click Here if you will
E.P. Grondine

Re: Medicine Wheels On Canadian Prairies in The News

Post by E.P. Grondine »

Sam Salmon wrote:
Mainstream archeology hasn't been exactly welcoming. Despite being highly regarded in his own field, Mr. Freeman says journals have rejected his papers and conferences have denied him a platform.

Professionals in any field resist interlopers from other disciplines and archeology is no exception, he says. But he suggests conventional wisdom can restrict insight.

“If you have preconceptions, you're never going to discover anything.”

Although he hasn't read Canada's Stonehenge, University of Alberta archeologist Jack Ives is familiar with Mr. Freeman's theories.

He says recent research suggests some astronomical knowledge developed in Central and South America flowed north to the plains, where it was adapted by people for their own purposes.

“There is some basis for thinking there was sophisticated astronomical knowledge,” says Mr. Ives.

But what exactly is manifested in the medicine wheels?

“They may certainly reflect solstices and equinoxes. How much more sophisticated beyond that has been a subject of debate.”

But Mr. Ives points out the terrain in question is an ancient glacial moraine, full of naturally occurring rocks.

“You have to be very careful about what you line up.”
What is bizarre is the completely unsupported assumption that astronomical knowledge had to flow from south to north, and that northern traditions have to reflect southern and were derivative.

Another bizarre aspect of this is the complete lack of interest by the local archaeologists [I'm assuming here that Canada does have them, and that may be a big assumption] in the site. No search for nearby settlement or feasting remains, no dating of the structure, no attempt to secure it.

Mr. Ives sits in isolation, looking at no other medicine wheels for comparison.

This will most likely turn out like Thom's work: relegated to the fringe, and then suddenly mainstream.

I can't speak to Siouxian astronomical traditions, but if they were anything like Alqonguin...

E. P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas
kbs2244
Posts: 2472
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:47 pm

Post by kbs2244 »

Canada has the same problems with these kinds of ideas as does the US.
It is called money.
The huge amounts that Indian Gambling pump into the political process.
The whole white guilt campaign the got the Indians the “right” to own casinos is based on the fabrication that they were what in Canada are called “The First Peoples.”

The problem is that they weren’t the “First.”
They, in fact, have oral histories of driving out settled inhabitants when they migrated into the area.
Those same histories attribute the medicine wheels to those predecessors.
But anybody that depends on any kind of government funding or salary cannot agree to that because of the political contributions funded by the casinos.
Such ideas threaten the whole house of cards.

The Plaines Indians were nomads.
They have no history of making anything permanent.
They have no history of working with stone other than arrow heads.
They were, and are, real good at telling the weather, and seasons, but have no history of astronomy.
User avatar
Sam Salmon
Posts: 349
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:30 am
Location: Vancouver-by-the-Sea

Post by Sam Salmon »

kbs2244 wrote:Canada has the same problems with these kinds of ideas as does the US.It is called money. The huge amounts that Indian Gambling pump into the political process.
No such problems in Canada at all-the few native owned casinos are small time operations and the paltry amount of money they make hasn't managed to influence the political process at all-your assertion is complete nonsense.

kbs2244 wrote:The whole white guilt campaign the got the Indians the “right” to own casinos is based on the fabrication that they were called.........Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah.....
Yeah right whatever you say.....:roll:
kbs2244 wrote:The Plains Indians were nomads.
They have no history of making anything permanent.
They have no history of working with stone other than arrow heads.
They were, and are, real good at telling the weather, and seasons, but have no history of astronomy.

They navigated by the stars-as anyone who's been on the Prairies at night can tell you the sky dominates everything.

As to working with stone-the circles are assembled from local stone not really worked you can see this from the photos as linked-in that regard the story title is misleading and that's why the subject line is phrased "Medicine Wheels On Canadian Prairies in The News" with no reference to other neolithic edifices.
E.P. Grondine

Post by E.P. Grondine »

kbs2244 wrote:Canada has the same problems with these kinds of ideas as does the US. It is called money. The huge amounts that Indian Gambling pump into the political process. The whole white guilt campaign the got the Indians the “right” to own casinos is based on the fabrication that they were what in Canada are called “The First Peoples.”

The problem is that they weren’t the “First.” They, in fact, have oral histories of driving out settled inhabitants when they migrated into the area. Those same histories attribute the medicine wheels to those predecessors. But anybody that depends on any kind of government funding or salary cannot agree to that because of the political contributions funded by the casinos. Such ideas threaten the whole house of cards.

The Plaines Indians were nomads.
They have no history of making anything permanent.
They have no history of working with stone other than arrow heads.
They were, and are, real good at telling the weather, and seasons, but have no history of astronomy.
kb, your comment is so filled with errors I don't even know where to start. Who exactly do you think built the medicine wheels: Atlanteans, Lemurians, Aliens, Vikings, Welsh, or Mormons?
E.P. Grondine

Post by E.P. Grondine »

I found this useful link in the comments section:

http://www.royalalbertamuseum.ca/human/ ... edwhls.htm
kbs2244
Posts: 2472
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:47 pm

Post by kbs2244 »

Do some research on:
The Fremont People
And
Sprit Cave Man
for starters.

I have never read any account of the Plaines Indians traveling at night.
They were a very daylight oriented culture.
There is no doubt they could not miss the star show at night, but there is no evidence I have ever seen put forth that they navigated by the stars.

I do not have any theory as to who built the wheels.
I am just stating it was not the current "Native Tribes."
Those tribes themselves admit they were there when they moved in.

"
E.P. Grondine

Post by E.P. Grondine »

kbs2244 wrote:Do some research on:
The Fremont People
And Sprit Cave Man
for starters.
There's the remains at Pyramid Lake(?) in northern Nevada as well. By the way, do you remember the name of that lake that was tapped to provide water for Los Angeles?
kbs2244 wrote: I have never read any account of the Plaines Indians traveling at night.
They were a very daylight oriented culture.
There is no doubt they could not miss the star show at night, but there is no evidence I have ever seen put forth that they navigated by the stars.


I can agree with your traveling by night statement, but you need to read some more. Bearings taken at night are used during the day for navigation across featureless areas. You particularly need to study up on their seasonally timed festivals and meets, and their seasonally timed hunting.
kbs2244 wrote: I do not have any theory as to who built the wheels.
It's pretty clear that you do, but simply don't have enough evidence or have your evidence sufficiently well organized to argue your point.
kbs2244 wrote: I am just stating it was not the current "Native Tribes."
A big problem with your hypothesis is that Siouxian peoples were observed building medicine wheels during contact period.
kbs2244 wrote: Those tribes themselves admit they were there when they moved in.
"
You're assuming that the "they" they referred to must be the other peoples which you mentioned at the start. While running some DNA tests on those remains would be quite interesting, it may simply have been other siouxian peoples or algonquin peoples who they were referring to.

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that you can find documented contact peoples, and then trace their cultural remains back for millenia.

While I can understand your frustration in trying to piece man's past together, your comments about casinos and cash were particularly offensive.

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas
Minimalist
Forum Moderator
Posts: 16013
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:09 pm
Location: Arizona

Post by Minimalist »

I do not have any theory as to who built the wheels.

Nor do I, kb.....but I must admit that I'm more curious about why they were built than about who built them.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
kbs2244
Posts: 2472
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:47 pm

Post by kbs2244 »

E.P.
I am not trying to insult the Indians.
I do not really care one way or the other about them, except for their standing in the way of learning more about NA history.

I have no personal need for gambling. I think it is stupid.
But if people want to throw their money away I have no qualm about the Indians being the ones that take it.

In fact, I would wish that the intended results of the casinos was happening.
But a huge amount of the casino income is skimmed off by “management companies.” (That are invariably run by whites).

Inside the tribe corruption is another huge problem.
That is why life on the reservation hasn’t improved very much since the casinos.
The money never reaches the lower level.

Here are 3 Indian News sites I monitor.

http://www.indiancountrytoday.com/
http://indiancountrynews.net/index.php? ... e&Itemid=1
http://www.indianz.com/IndianGaming/

I monitor them because they are a good source of news about archeology discoveries that never reach the big media and therefore do not show up on the news pages of sites like this.

Like you, I also find the connection between money and politics offensive.
But that dosen't make it go away.
(By the way, I was way off in my $6 billion annual number. In 2006 it was $25 billion.)
But note the one site actually has a sub-site labeled “Abramoff”
If you go though it you will see how they contemplated sueing Mr. Abramoff for not coming through on a promised, and paid for, deal.
But they ran into a bit of a problem.
How do you sue for non performance of an illegal act?
They love the continuing fallout of Mr. Abramoff's fall from grace.


Here is a more recent, more local, smaller dollar example of the disease.
It only made the news in a Cape Cod paper.
But strangly, the Indian web site provided the link.

http://www.capecodonline.com/apps/pbcs. ... /812180320


$25 billion in 2006 in US
http://www.sptimes.com/2007/06/05/Busin ... ome_.shtml

The Jack Abramoff connection
http://www.econlib.org/library/Columns/ ... bling.html

I actually do not think the older generations of the Indians care if people know they were not the “First Peoples.”
They did not seem shy about telling the first white recorders of their histories of their powerness in conquering, even annihilating, the existing inhabitants when they moved in.

It is the current generation that has grown up under the influence of the management companies that are always the ones in front of the cameras and microphones.
They have been told the dangers of the house of cards falling down by those companies.
Those companies realize that, since the majority of the American voting public is anti-gambling, the good life they are leading would evaporate with the general public's knowledge of the true history of NA.

They even have a term for anyone who try’s to publish such a discovery.
They are called “anti-firsters.”
And of course any anti-firster is a racist.
No matter what their professional credentials.
And probably a KKK member.
User avatar
Sam Salmon
Posts: 349
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:30 am
Location: Vancouver-by-the-Sea

Post by Sam Salmon »

kbs2244-I really wish you'd take your personal hate-on/politically motivated rants the hell off my thread.

There's a place called stormfront.org for fringe characters-why not head on over and introduce yourself to the knuckledraggers-this board is about Archaeology.
User avatar
clubs_stink
Posts: 197
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 8:43 pm

Post by clubs_stink »

"Mainstream archeology hasn't been exactly welcoming. Despite being highly regarded in his own field, Mr. Freeman says journals have rejected his papers and conferences have denied him a platform.

Professionals in any field resist interlopers from other disciplines and archeology is no exception, he says. But he suggests conventional wisdom can restrict insight.

If you have preconceptions, you're never going to discover anything.”

It is mostly those who are NOT members of the CLUB who are open to looking at old things in new ways...too bad they're ignored.
User avatar
clubs_stink
Posts: 197
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 8:43 pm

Post by clubs_stink »

E.P. Grondine

Post by E.P. Grondine »

kbs2244 wrote:E.P.
I am not trying to insult the Indians.
I do not really care one way or the other about them, except for their standing in the way of learning more about NA history.
By NA you mean North American of course. I'll try to make this as easy as possible for you. A multiple choice question:

Who built the medicine wheels? (multiple choices allowed):
A) Lemurians
B) Atlanteans
C) A lost tribe of Israel
D) Nephites
E) Welsh descendants
F) Viking descendants
G) A "caucasoid" race related to the Ainu
H) Other___________ (explicate)

E.P.
Post Reply