A Blind Test of the Younger Dryas Impact Hypothesis

[Tiompan]

Might be of interest .

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/articl ... ne.0155470

[E.P. Grondine]

Hi George -

http://cosmictusk.com/still-no-sem-holl ... /#comments

You can ignore Mr. Garcia's comments there.

[Minimalist]

Conclusions

The results of analyses of blind samples collected at the Lubbock Lake site to test the YD impact hypothesis produced no evidence of an extraterrestrial impact at the YDB.

The ball is back in your court, E.P.

[E.P. Grondine]

Conclusions

The results of analyses of blind samples collected at the Lubbock Lake site to test the YD impact hypothesis produced no evidence of an extraterrestrial impact at the YDB.

The ball is back in your court, E.P.

Thank you for the opportunity to respond, min. My quick answer will be somewhat lengthy, and not footnoted.

The first impact was a comet impact on the ice sheet, which resulted in the Lloydminster uplift.
This structure had to be formed in the most recent ice age, otherwise it would have been scoured away during that ice advance.
This occurred as the Choctaw remembered.

The second impact event was a tangential impact of a cometary debris chain.
The Hunnaboo provided us with the best account of it found so far.

Where to begin?

First off, withe the composition of comets.
While the distribution of elements in the accretion disk from which our solar system formed is still under study,
it appears the comets have a low metal content, aside from Platinum Group Elements,
formed in our Sun's initial detonation and which were then concentrated in the comet's cores by gravity working over billions of years.

Second, let us examine the production of impactites.
In the case of cometary impact, besides their initial mass, you have a component added by whatever they hit.

It is only very recently that the techniques have been refined to the point that these impactites (and volcanic products) can be identified in ice cores,
or IN VERY PRECISE GEOLOGICAL SAMPLES.
(This data has an very immediate bearing on determining exactly how many nuclear explosions it takes to bring on a "nuclear winter".)

The first impact was on an ice sheet, where the water vaporized in the impact washed the cometary impactites out of the atmosphere.
There were also no ground components in those impactites.

The second impact event at 10,850 BCE was tangential to some degree no yet known.
This formed the layer of impactites found globally.

Our best model for the tangential impact process is the Rio Cuarto impacts of 2,360 BCE.
In a tangetial impact the impactors throw off enough heat in their passage through the atmosphere to set the ground underneath their path of entry on fire.
These fires most likely account for a large component of the impactites found at 10,850 BCE,
but the processes are still not firmly modeled.

That said, due to the thin layer of these impactites, and later geological processes disturbing those deposits, identifying them is very very difficult.
You can not use a bulldozer to do it, but only the use of the most precise geological and archaeological methods,
along with advanced lab processing, will allow you to obtain samples.
Otherwise you end up with garbage.

As it currently sits, we do not know if we should look for impact craters or impact scars from the 10.850 BCE event.
Whatever kinds of astroblemes were formed, it most likely will be found in the "center" of the impactite field.

The goal of my research has been to determine exactly what , whether comet or asteroid hit when in recent times.
It is not to put your mind at rest.
Thus my role is also not to solve NAGPRA problem for the American archaological community,
but to create them.

It appears that theses memories provide an inexpensive way of defining the problem space
for very expensive and detailed geological and archaeological work.

Min, I know you have problems dealing with both the Native American oral corpus, and with the formation of the Old Testament and its sources,
but I will simply point out to you that to my knowledge there is nothing in the archaeological record in conflict with the Choctaw of Hunaboo accounts.

For more on carbonaceous chondrites, comets, and impacts see the meteor list archives.
Quick discussion of and citations to the Rio Cuarto impacts may be found in "Man and Impact in the Americas".

[Minimalist]

Min, I know you have problems dealing with both the Native American oral corpus, and with the formation of the Old Testament and its sources,

I have problems with all oral tales which are postulated to be unchanging, eternal or "the word of god."

[E.P. Grondine]

I have problems with all oral tales which are postulated to be unchanging, eternal or "the word of god."

Given the number of people in the world holding religious beliefs, you're going to be very unhappy then, min.

And given that ancient peoples nearly universally had religious beliefs and cosmologies very different than your own,
you're going to have difficulties in understanding them.

min, there were a number of vastly different Native American religions and understandings of how the world works.
As I go through their histories looking for memories of impact events I deal with those many different thought systems, going from one to another.

What is remarkable and of some note is that they all tried to assign meaning to chaotic impact events.
They tried to come up with what for them were coherent reasons for the massive losses of life and their physical forces.
There were none, of course.

I have quite a bit of work sitting in front of me.
May I suggest you take a course in comparative religions?
Instead of basing your arguments on your own understanding of a sample of one?

[Minimalist]

If EVERYONE believes something which is not true then it remains false, E.P.

You should know that.

[E.P. Grondine]

If EVERYONE believes something which is not true then it remains false, E.P.

You should know that.

Yes, I certainly know that.

Consider, for one example, the large number of archaeologists and anthropologists who BELIEVE
that the ancient skies were as benevolent as our recent skies have been.

[Minimalist]

The sky is "benevolent?"

[E.P. Grondine]

min, have you ever thought for long about why G*d in Judaeo-Christian tradition is "G*d in heaven"?

[Kalopin]

Lloydminster uplift.

where? near Alberta or Saskatchewan? -
http://publications.gov.sk.ca/documents ... ep80-4.pdf
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Saskatchewan

There are six notable meteorite or comet impact craters in Saskatchewan. Carswell, Deep Bay and Gow Lake have affected the Canadian Shield area of the north. In the southern Phanerozoic crater are the Viewfield, Elbow and Maple Creek structures.[10] The Carswell structure is largest astrobleme at 35 kilometers (22 mi) in diameter.[11]

The first impact was a comet impact on the ice sheet

...how did you come to this conclusion?

as the Choctaw remembered.

...got a link?

second impact event was a tangential impact of a cometary debris chain.
The Hunnaboo provided us with the best account

...how? ...got a link?...

it appears the comets have a low metal content, aside from Platinum Group Elements,
formed in our Sun's initial detonation and which were then concentrated in the comet's cores by gravity working over billions of years.

...?...

where the water vaporized in the impact washed the cometary impactites out of the atmosphere.

...?...

In a tangetial impact the impactors throw off enough heat in their passage through the atmosphere to set the ground underneath their path of entry on fire.
These fires most likely account for a large component of the impactites found at 10,850 BCE,
but the processes are still not firmly modeled.

...?...

As it currently sits, we do not know if we should look for impact craters or impact scars from the 10.850 BCE event.
Whatever kinds of astroblemes were formed, it most likely will be found in the "center" of the impactite field.

...?...
[hint- the Moon impacted the Mediterranean sea...]

The goal of my research has been to determine exactly what , whether comet or asteroid hit when in recent times.

...if this is true, then, please review my research...

have quite a bit of work sitting in front of me.

...yes...

The sky is "benevolent?"

...and that's the question?...

It was named the "Younger Dryas" because?
...and so, how would you explain the instant loss of megaflora and megafauna?
...once again- why did the elder dryas grow so much larger than the younger dryas?
...what was the mechanism?
...or did they build the pyramids in the caves?...the temples beneath water?...did the inhabitants just bury their city and move on?...what buried all the cities, now being found, beneath land and water?...pyramids built for tombs?...by hammer and chisel?...or?

Minimalist wrote:
If EVERYONE believes something which is not true then it remains false, E.P

...agreed!

Plants and animals lived much longer and grew much bigger during the lesser gravity of the Pleistocene, before the Moon impacted where the Mediterranean sea now exists, slowing the outer plates and mantle in relation to the faster spinning, crystalized, iron, inner core...:-]

...and,... an airburst would not generate enough heat to form the nanodiamonds being found within the spherules along the YDB...

[Minimalist]

It's yet another idea they stole from the Zoroastrians. And no, I didn't give it any more thought after that.

[Minimalist]

before the Moon impacted where the Mediterranean sea now exists,

Uh-huh.

[Kalopin]

Min- It's the only source to give an explanation to every event that occurred...

...feel free to give any other explanation to argue over...
...Is there even any other option [actual mechanism] that has ever been suggested or discussed?,[ concerning the reason for instant mass extinctions, historical accounts of great catastrophic events and the fact that all plants and all animals, all of a sudden, grew much smaller and lived much shorter lives?, as all this has been documented... But, never a reason...]
Do you have a better one?

[...turns out, the crazies, are the ones teaching and learning the current b.s. :-]

...and how and why does everyone let E.P. and his constituents get away with making outlandish assumptions with no rebuttal?
...is there no one to question how a cometary airburst would produce one geological uplift feature and cause all the events and consequences that have been scientifically proven? [now that's what's crazy!]...

[circumspice]

Aw shit... Here we go again...
Ad nauseum...
Ad infinitum...