The HENGES of North America (was something about X mt DNA)

[E.P. Grondine]

[quote="tiopan"]
Do you really want a list of them ?
It/you are such a waste of space and time .
{/quote]

tiompan, I have been working on recent asteroid and comet impacts since 1997.
This whole exchange is not about my errors,
it is simply your attempt to avoid considering those recent impact events and their effects.

Now instead of dealing with that evidence,
you are attacking the messenger.

If you are looking for an analogy to the latest from Newt, his oligarchs, their foreign "allies", and their puppets,
it is their attack on the Department of Justice.

Space never was a part of mankind's environment in your apparat.
In my apparat, we are all passengers on spaceship Earth,
and have been from our beginning as a species.

[Tiompan]

There has only been one person here dealing with the evidence , and it's not you EP.
You have evaded providing evidence to support your fantasies on multiple occasions .
Part of the evasion behaviour is coming up with non sequiturs and getting off the subject .
Politicians have done it forever . So what . I am not talking about them, only your behaviour and fantasies .
It certainly suits you to talk about others instead of the problems at hand .

[E.P. Grondine]

The only person here living in a fantasy is you , tiompan.
In your world smaller recent comet and asteroid impacts do not occur.
As I told you, I am quite used to tantrums from people such as yourself,
as it is one way of avoiding evidence.
You're acting like a three year old.

[Tiompan]

The more you attempt to evade the issues the more you get stuck in the mud .
"In your world smaller recent comet and asteroid impacts do not occur."
You just made that up , something that you simply don't know .
Where is the evidence to support that nonsense .
Yet again you will fail to provide anything to support yet another fantasy .
But it won't stop you making further comments as it it helps evading the major problems ,but nevertheless there will still be more to come of the minor ones to add to to the total , like the above .

[E.P. Grondine]

Tiompan, I have dealt with your kind before. Whether it has been the Clovis Firsters, no early hominids out of Africa, no tall Native Americans, no Native American population arrival from Europe, the attack on Hibbens' for his report of the Fairbanks deposits, the underlying mental process has always been denial.

Having taken a look at the ancient Europeans' use of hallucinogens, I pretty well know about archaeologists and their biasing psychological behaviors,
including bust not limited to both projection and racism.

I am used to dealing in dangerous ideas, and have long experience in it.

I have asked you for a straight up answer on the Holocene Start Impact Events, and you have evaded answering using all of the feeble techniques at your disposal.

The evolution of the use of the word henge is a neologism. Get used to it.
It will stick around as it is convenient and useful to those archaeologists working with the remains of henges here in North America.
Your blather simply interferes with the study of the development and use of henges.
Period.

[Tiompan]

EP, all you have is ad hominens .I'm surprised that there is no mention of Hitler .
Why can't you pick on something that I have actually said , and show it to be in error ?, rather than fantasise about what you hoped/dreamt that I might have said .
Like so many of your comments , your definition of henge is wrong . Anyone who has bothered to read your evasions of the evidence appreciates that .
But of course that is only one of the many errors .
You have been asked for evidence to support your fantasies on multiple occasions , you merely evade them . Asking a question is not providing evidence .
How could I possibly interfere with " The study and development of use of henges " Lol .
You don't know what a henge is . As far as studying them , do tell , this should be fun . If it is anything like your other areas of "study " .

[Tiompan]

Just like the list of facts about henges that you couldn't respond to ;here are some more facts , not fantasies .
In this thread alone you have said :1)" As the Yuchi festivities were astronomically timed, the archaeologists here define it as a "henge" .
When asked to provide evidence to support this made up rubbish you failed .

2)“in this case we have full records of your cover-up easily at hand. “.When asked to provide evidence to support this made up rubbish you failed .

3)the allele for above average height is expressed in the Adena or for X mt DNA in general ?" When asked to provide evidence to support this made up rubbish you failed .

4)“Height is just another very distinctive and easily observable Adena cultural marker.”When asked to provide evidence to support this made up rubbish you failed .

Apart from that we have had the usual crap about henges , more fantasies about about a tree marking the winters solstice ,although you wisely decided not to argue
about the problems that presented and the general nonsense about the suggestion . The “Adena monoliths “ i.e. stones that may have been moved and worked , but when
asked for evidence of the working or thenearest Adena sites , as ever ,none was forth coming .
You also make up what people think e.g. 2 above , and also “In your world smaller recent comet and asteroid impacts do not occur. “ .
When did I say that ? When asked to provide evidence to support this made up rubbish you failed .
You never have the evidence ,all you can come up with is made up comments and ad hominens .
Stop wasting bandwith and my time . Nobody else is likely to bother reading your posts as they know what they are like and know what to expect .

[E.P. Grondine]

Why, Hello, Captain Oblivious,

The features of the Adena monoliths were pointed out by my colleague Flecther Wilson in the video.
The notes on Adena height are given in Mounds for the Dead, the standard work on Adena.
and confirmed by other more recent work, also cited here.
The colonial accounts of them are as I gave in the Adena Monoliths video.

The Yuchi henge lore has been given.
I will concede losing track of one colonial account of their visits to one of their henges, but that is only for the time being.

But none of that matters, as you are incapable of perceiving hard evidence
when it does not fit into your pre-existing theoretical views.

When the evidence of the failure of your perceptual and cognitive facilities becomes over-whelming,
then and only then will you issue some kind of small apology in a vain effort to save face,
and even then to other people who whose work I relied on for mine.

Now once again, you pompous twit, were there 2 cometary impact events at the start of the Holocene?
"Yes", or "No"?

[Tiompan]

Here are the mistaken comments .With your attempts at a response .
“1)" As the Yuchi festivities were astronomically timed, the archaeologists here define it as a "henge" . When asked to provide evidence to support this made up rubbish you failed .”
Your response “The Yuchi henge lore has been given.
I will concede losing track of one colonial account of their visits to one of their henges, but that is only for the time being.”
Nothing about the the actual problem i.e. evidence supporting the fact that reputable archaeologists define a Yuchi monument as henge .There are other problems but we will stick to the most basic . Failed again .

2)“in this case we have full records of your cover-up easily at hand. “.When asked to provide evidence to support this made up rubbish you failed . No response . Failed again .

3)the allele for above average height is expressed in the Adena or for X mt DNA in general ?" When asked to provide evidence to support this made up rubbish you failed .
Your response “The notes on Adena height are given in Mounds for the Dead, the standard work on Adena. and confirmed by other more recent work, also cited here.” Nothing about alleles for above average height or genetics or xmt DNA in “ Mounds for the Dead “ there is no support for the commnet in the book . Failed again .

4)“Height is just another very distinctive and easily observable Adena cultural marker.”When asked to provide evidence to support this made up rubbish you failed .
Avoided completely . How could you possibly defend such a stupid comment as height being a cultural marker ?
Failed again

Not a comment that was in error , as such , but as for the "Adena monoliths" nonsense .
The “Adena monoliths “ i.e. stones that may have been moved and worked , but when
asked for evidence of the working or the nearest Adena sites , as ever ,none was forth coming .
Your response ."The features of the Adena monoliths were pointed out by my colleague Flecther Wilson in the video."
Your videos are unwatchable . If there are markings why can't you post a pic here ,you waste enough space with your regular posting of images ,often the same ones .
You also avoided mentioning the nearest Adena sites .

That is just some of the problems in one thread .

Btw asking my opinion on anything is not a response to your problems .
I'm not interested in your opinions , only pointing out where you make comments that are demonstrably wrong .
If I have said something wrong about cometary impacts or anything else for that matter , that you can refute , feel free .

[E.P. Grondine]

Besides "yes" and "no",
"perhaps" is also an acceptable answer.

[E.P. Grondine]

From Bob Kobres -

YAMACUTAH: A sacred sky observatory in southeastern North America.

This observation taken from the writings of G.J.N. Wilson (The Early History of Jackson County Georgia, 1914, pp. 188-193, W.E. White editor) gives a remarkable account of a Native American Stonehenge-like construction as well as a description of the type conditions which prompted a gathering.

bobk

Perhaps there are comparatively few people now living in the county who know that there is such a place in it as the "TUMBLING SHOALS." for more than a generation no road, public or private, has led within sight of them; and like most other things pertaining to the early settlement of this country by the Anglo-Saxon race, their history has never been written. They are about one mile below the well-known Hurricane Shoals, on North Oconee river, where the water goes whirling around one end of a solid rock dam built by the hand of nature, and then ripples over a series of minature falls in such a way as to seem that one wave rolls or tumbles over another. Hence the name, which comes from the Cherokee word, YAMACUTAH, signifying to tumble.

In 1784 Jordan Clark and Jacob Bankston, two enterprising and adventurous young men, came from Virginia to Wilkes County, Georgia. There they met with a roving band of Choctaw Indians who told them of a strange old camping-ground which they called Yamacutah. They said it was located on the banks of Etoho (Oconee) river, some two days' journey towards the setting sun; that the Great Spirit once lived there; and that since his disappearance Indians sometimes went to the place to walk the paths which God once trod, and then hastened away, as He had done, without leaving a trail to show which way they went.

Having their curosity aroused, Clark and Bankston at once resolved to go and see if the Choctaws had told them the truth. Late on the afternoon of April 22, 1784, they reached a series of small shoals, which they immediately recognized as Yamacutah. While the stream was small and the shoals modest, they were curious, and their surroundings were sublime and awe-inspiring far beyond anything known to the present inhabitants.

Trees of fabulous dimensions interlocked their ponderous branches, and the acorns and chestnuts of the previous year literally covered the ground. The glaring eyes and startling bound of the red deer, the wild chattering of a multitude of birds, and the warning signal of the rattlesnake, told the newcomers that such beings had seldom, if ever, been there before.

Distant some twenty yards, a great black bear was perched in the fork of a tree. As he moved his forepaws with the evident intention of descending, a ball from Clark's deadly rifle crashed through his head. Curious to say, as was afterwards learned, that bear's life was the first ever known to be taken at or near Yamacutah. After a "delightful supper of broiled bear ham," as the adventurers described it, they slept by turns, through most of the night, and with the rising sun began a careful examination of their surroundings.

About seventy-five yards from the west end of the natural rock dam they discovered a curious upright statue a little over four feet high. It was made of a soft talcose rock, 13 inches square at the bottom; but the top, from the shoulders up was a fair representation of the human figure. The shoulders were rudimentary, but the head was well formed. The neck was unduly long and slender. The chin and forehead were retreating. The eyes were finely executed, and looked anxiously to the east. It stood at the center of an earth mound (17) seventeen feet in circumference and six feet high. Around it were many other mysteries which will never be fully explained. Only a few of them may be mentioned now.

Four paths, doubtless the ones the Choctaws mentioned, led, with mathematical precision, from the base of the mound to the cardinal points of the compass. Though it seemed that no other part of the forest had been trodden by human feet, these paths were as smooth and clean as a parlor floor. The scrubby cane, which seemed to have been planted by design along their margins, was as neatly trimmed as if the work had been done by a professional gardener. And here, amid those gloomy solitudes the natives believed that our God, their Great Spirit, had walked as a man walks along his homeward pathway.

The statue was found to be the center of an exact circle about one hundred and fifty yards in diameter. Its boundary was plainly marked by holes in the ground three feet apart. The holes to which the paths ran in a straight line from the center were much larger than the intervening ones; and before them, inside the circle, were what seemed to be stone altars of varying dimensions. At the end of the path running to the north was a single triangular stone; at the east were five square stones and four steps; at the west, four stones and three steps; at the south, three stones and two steps. Upon the upper surface of all the stones except that at the north the effect of fire was plainly visible and doubtless had been used for sacrificial purposes.

All the paths terminated at the altars except the one running to the east. At this the trail parted, and, uniting beyond it, continued a short distance and then, much like an ascending column of smoke, disappeared, gradually. The account given by the Choctaws was verified. On the smooth surfaces of the stones were deeply cut both three and five-pointed half moons, whose horns turned in different ways.

A good representation of the rising sun and other curious characters were deeply cut on the eastern altar.

Outside the circle were many ash heaps, beaten hard by the heavy hand of time, and over some of them were growing gigantic oaks and towering pines, as if to mark the grave of the dead past.

Having studied these and other features of the vicinity, the adventurers went back to their starting point with a determination to return and make a permanent settlement at Yamacutah.

For an unknown period of time the immediate territory on both sides of the river and for about one mile below, and to the Hurricane Shoals above, was neutral ground, claimed by neither Creek nor Cherokee, the lords of the adjoining territory.

For reasons already given it was considered Holy Ground: the Indians' Palestine. If on the war path, they went around it; if enemies met there they became friends as long as they remained there; by mutual consent of all the tribes the life of neither beast or bird, nor any living thing, should ever perish there. It was ever to be a place of refuge and never to have upon it the stain of blood. The killing of the bear by Clark was the first breach of law in the Holy Ground, and led, a few years later to open hostilities between the red and white men who lived in this part of the country .

On the 20th day of the following June Clark and Bankston returned to Yamacutah and began the first permanent settlement of white people within the present limits of Jackson County. They were accompanied by John Harris, a nephew of Nancy Hart, of revolutionary fame, and who became extensively known as Black Harris. He was a skillful workman in both wood and iron, and of almost unlimited resources in strategy and cunning.

A small cabin, which at once became dwelling-house and work-shop, was soon completed. Here such articles were made as seemed necessary to their simple wants. I now have a cupboard which was made by John Harris in that shop in 1785. It was made of boards split from a huge pine tree that grew upon an ash heap near the eastern altar. Though one hundred and twenty-one years old, it is still solid in all its points, and no modern mechanic can excel the workmanship.

This ancient "dresser," as the maker called it, together with a curious cluster of pine cones that grew upon the tree of which is was made; an acorn which fell from an oak that reached its ponderous branches far over the talcose statue; and some other things, I keep as mementoes of the shadowy past. When in want of curious mental food, or a desire to leap at a single bound from the present back to the long-gone past, I look at these relics of a former age. and with the old Saxon poet who, after his failure to penetrate the future, cried out: "ROLL BACK! ROLL BACK! Oh, wheels of time, roll back ! and let me realize something of the difference between then and now. "

The following year, 1785, was a memorable one. In May there came a cold wave which killed many large trees. The bird family was almost exterminated, and a large eagle, accidentally feeling the warmth of the cabin, became domesticated and remained a pet for several months, when it left wearing a bell which John Harris had fastened around its neck with his name and date engraved upon it. In 1790 this romantic bird was killed in the vicinity of Augusta. Even so large and hardy animals as wolves and panthers were found dead in the forest, and many fish were frozen in solid ice.


But the most remarkable phenomenon of that, or perhaps of any other year since the crufixion of the Son of God was the Dark Day on November 24th. It has never been explained, and the splendid illumination of the 20th century casts no light upon the cause of the darkness. Though the sun was visible all day long, and appeared to be much larger than usual, it omitted no light except such as may be seen while passing through a dense fog at night. The whole of animated nature on the Western Hemisphere was astonished on that day, and all who had ever heard of the final judgment listened in anxious expectation of hearing the long-drawn blasts of Gabriel's trumpet to wake the sleeping dead.

But only that which took place at Yamacutah concerns us now, and the tenth of that can not be told here. Even such strong and heroic men as Clark, Bankston and Harris were anxious, talked in whispers, and sat by their cabin all day. Various animals passed by in utter confusion, and several opossums and raccoons crouched near them, and though they sat with rifles across their knees, not a gun was fired the whole long day.

During the day many Indians came, and seating themselves around the mystic circle, gazed steadfastly towards the central figure. This they continued all day, and perhaps all night; for when next morning they saw the sun rise bright and golden as ever, they arose as one man, went inside the circle, and solemnly walking along the path to a step as regular as the beating of a healthy heart, they disappeared beyond the eastern altar as already indicated.

This was the last time this curious performance ever took place at the Tumbling Shoals, or anywhere else so far as I ever heard. What did it mean? Was there any more in it than a mere heathen ceremony ?

[E.P. - But there was yet another colonial account, where the Native American people returned to a site at certain times of the year.
(I guess when this gets done with tiompan, I'll have enough material to put together a book on North American HENGES. As the materials on Medicine Wheels are already out there ans well known, and I'll need them for the western Sioux markets, and to contrast them with the eastern henges...
I suppose the short book will be "North American HENGES and Medicine Wheels," or "The HENGES and Medicine Wheels of North America"

We'll see. I'm limping back into the field for another survey looking for Adena monoliths. If any of them turn out to be HENGES, I'll be sure to let you know.]

[Tiompan]

Yes , no ,perhaps . None are appropriate or matter .

[E.P. Grondine]

Yes , no ,perhaps . None are appropriate or matter .

Neither do you, on the cosmic scale of things.

[Tiompan]

The henges of North America , will be a very short book . You might imagine if there were any , someone might have a written it already .
It may however appeal to the alt nut crowd who are not very discerning when it comes to terminology , veracity or evidence .

[Tiompan]

Yes , no ,perhaps . None are appropriate or matter .

Neither do you, on the cosmic scale of things.

Lol .Who does ?