Homo Erectus/Neanderthal in North America?

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:41 am

sounds like unwarranted speculation to me
theres no point basing possible theories on what might be found
when you start doing that you actually waste time for working out the details on what has been found but overlooked
ask Essan
he'll tell you which technique is more likely to result in the truth being known
or maybe you can ask Schlieman if he based his idea of where Troy was on no evidence or the orthodox evidence that had been overlooked
at the end of the day your life is short and the field is extremely large
wasted too much time is an epitath on millions of graves Min
i wouldn't want it to be on yours

Frank Harrist · Post by **Frank Harrist** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:59 am

Ithink Daybrown had an interesting theory about why there is no MtDNA found in modern humans and it may have some merit. If I try to explain it here I'll make myself look foolish, but I think that there is a possibility that there could be Neanderthal DNA among us now. Not MtDNA because ......something about the Neanderthal mothers dying giving birth to Sapiens children because the head was so big??? If I get a chance I'll find her post to that effect. It makes sense, but most people ignored her because she was such a champion of feminist causes and shit. She was pretty sharp.....for a girl!!!!

Post by **Minimalist** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:20 am

when you start doing that you actually waste time

But it's THEIR TIME, marduk, not your's. I am mystified by your attitude.
I repeat that it seems you are much more afraid that they will find something than that they won't.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:03 pm

ok
so if they found that Neanderthals had contributed 10% of their D.N.A. to a species that was already regarded as modern 60,000 years earlier
how would that be relevant exactly
see you are giving an answer to a question that hasn't been asked
as such it is entirely irrelevant to the evolution of our species
we were already human before we interacted with neanderthal
and we are human now
so what did any possible hypothetical breeding do for us
the best answer to this question i have heard is it gave us an appreciation for music
thats nice and romantic but has 0% evidence to support it
try and think about the conclusions to your questions rather than the questions themselves
its answers you are looking for isn't it ?
not more questions

I know we agree on a lot of subjects
it would be silly to disagree over a question that is entirely irrelevant

Post by **Minimalist** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:06 pm

I couldn't disagree with you more.

When mankind stops asking questions he may as well pull out his bible. They already think they have all the answers.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:09 pm

but what you are doing as akin to religious faith
you have faith that the neanderthals have a part in homo sapiens evolution and you are overlooking the fact that there is no evidence to support it
doesn't fit into a personal belief so you choose to ignore it until you can find some evidence that backs you
what will you do when the evidence never comes
make another excuse why ?
you're starting to sound like Arch

Post by **Minimalist** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:14 pm

Wait, wait, wait...don't put words in my mouth.

I have great doubt that Neanderthal survived much contact with HHS and until proven wrong I account for the die-off of HNS due to disease organisms which were introduced by HHS and for which they had no immunity. We have seen the results of such disease organisms being introduced by the Spanish in the New World. My gut reaction is that there was no interbreeding BUT it's not only no skin off my nose if these fellows want to research the issue I think it is a good thing that perhaps they will put the final nail in the coffin.

What is wrong with pure research for the sake of research?

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:38 pm

aah ok
i might have got the wrong end of the stick if so i apologise
there is nothing wrong with research in order to provide data
its research in order to find data to supplement an unproven theory that i think is pointless

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:39 pm

Hmmm....pretty circular discussion here.

A few facts - Neandertal is no longer with us, period.

Man has occupied Europe for a million years.

He evolved into H. Heiderlbergensis (HH)

HH evolved into HN

mDNA studies suggest that HN became extinct c35-40Kya.

If anyone chooses to believe that is the end of one of mankinds oldest mysteries, and the book should be closed on it, that's more than fine.

Post by **Minimalist** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:44 pm

Neandertal is no longer with us, period.

I could SWEAR I used to work for one.

Post by **Minimalist** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:48 pm

its research in order to find data to supplement an unproven theory that i think is pointless

Aren't all theories 'unproven' until evidence is gathered either for or against them?

I mean, where would we be if no one followed up on Darwin because it was 'unproven?'

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:54 pm

Speaking of that Min, I've not gotten into the Evolution discussion because of all the religious quarrels, but when you line up pics. of early H. Erectus from 2 million years ago to 200,000 yrs. ago, it's impossible not to see.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:56 pm

Aren't all theories 'unproven' until evidence is gathered either for or against them?

I mean, where would we be if no one followed up on Darwin because it was 'unproven?

Darwin based his theory on evidence he had collected during his life as a naturalist
he didn't start out with a theory and then look for supporting evidence

Post by **Minimalist** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:58 pm

Agreed, marduk, but what about all the others who have carried on his work?

Should they have stopped investigating because Darwin had already written it up?

With all due respect that sounds like the proposal to shut the US Patent Office in 1848 because everything that could possibly be invented had already been invented.

Post by **Minimalist** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:59 pm

it's impossible not to see.

Well...maybe not for rational human beings.