Firearms Archaeology

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 8:57 am

It was Bren in my day.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:34 am

i kind of figured

and the rifles were bolt action yes

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:42 am

Yep! You actually aimed them as well, as opposed to 'hosing'.

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:15 am

I never really figured out the moral to that story, but its interesting...

Don't fight duels if you are a poor marksman.

Philosopher Minimalist Maximus

That's hilarious!

Why Johnny Ringo, you look like somebody just walked over your grave.

Doc Holiday

Post by **Minimalist** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:59 am

"Minimalist Maximus" sounds like a psychiatric condition, Charlie.

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:39 pm

"Minimalist Maximus" sounds like a psychiatric condition, Charlie.

Minimalist Maximus n.

1. exertion of one's free will, resulting in noncomformable thought.

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:14 am

Yeah! I remember the Webley and SMLE. The thing I remember about the Webley was the size and weight! Do you know the story as to why it was issued Bruce?

World War I
The standard-issue Webley revolvers at the outbreak of World War I was the Webley Mk V (adopted in 1913), but there were considerably more Mk IV revolvers in service in 1914 than there were Mk V revolvers. In 1915, the Webley Mk VI was adopted as the standard sidearm for British and Commonwealth troops and remained so for the duration of World War I, being issued to officers, airmen, naval crews and boarding parties, trench raiders, machine-gun teams, and tank crews. The Mk VI proved a very reliable and hardy weapon, well suited to the mud and adverse conditions of trench warfare, and several accessories were developed for the Mk VI--including a bayonet (made from a converted French Pritchard bayonet), a speedloader device ("Prideaux Device") and a stock allowing for the revolver to be converted into a carbine.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webley_Revolver

Digit,
no, I didn't know the story of the Webley. This is the first time I've heard of a pistol being able to sport a bayonet. Is there more to the story?

Bruce · Post by **Bruce** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:37 am

Code: Select all

Yep! You actually aimed them as well, as opposed to 'hosing'.

Much to everyone’s surprise, the S.M.L.E. turned out to be an excellent combat rifle. The British troops, now superbly trained in musketry (particularly accurate rapid fire), were handing out a thorough drubbing to the German infantry. On occasion, the Germans believed themselves to be under machine gun fire, such was the accuracy and rapidity of the rifle fire directed at them.

The British rifleman of 1914 was capable of thirty aimed shots a minute -INCLUDING reloading - which most of us would be hard pressed to duplicate today, even with a self loader. The lessons of the Boer war had been well learned, and the rapid firing, handier, charger loading and supremely reliable Lee was undoubtedly the best infantry rifle of the war.

The trouble was, there weren’t enough of them. It soon became evident that the First World War would not be "over by Christmas", that a long conflict seemed likely and great expansion of the armed forces would be necessary. The Lee, good as it was, had one major drawback - it was time consuming to produce. The P-14, however, was designed with rapid mass production in mind. No manufacturer in the United Kingdom had the spare machinery and necessary facilities to take up mass production of it - all being fully occupied with other war work - so a decision was made to have the P-14 manufactured in the United States for the British Army as a substitute rifle to augment the inadequate supplies of the Lee. The Americans certainly had the necessary experience and technical capabilities, and manufacture of the P-14 commenced in the U.S.A. in the year 1915. They were made by the two rifle making giants, Winchester and Remington.

http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-weapons/303.htm

When I first heard Enfield, I thought wait a minute that's an american made gun. Guess I was partly right.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:05 am

"they don't like it up em"

Cpl Jones (Dads Army)
http://www.davecovcomedy.co.uk/whispers ... /theme.wav

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:29 pm

As I expect you know Bruce, Sam Colt opened a plant in the UK at Soho in Birmingham for the production of his revolvers. The British army officers snapped them up as the only available, reliable, repeating side arm. Unfortunately stories soon started filtering back to Colt of a lack of stopping power.
The British Army was to be in action in the Sudan against the Mahdi's forces who were led to believe that infidel's bullets could not harm a true Moslem and their courage was incredible, but they were of course mown down by the Brit's Maxim's. Those who reached the British lines met officers firing the Colt and one officer complained that he emptied a full cylinder into the chest of an attacker and the fellow just kept coming and the officer finished him off using his Colt as a club.
Interestingly Winston Churchill fought in that campaign and was in the last large scale cavalry charge by the Britich army and subsequently quoted that there was nothing quite so exilerating as hear bullets - flying past!
The Webley was produced to answer these problems and effectively finished Colt over here. Mind you Bruce, the Webley was more like a canon than a side arm.

Barracuda · Post by **Barracuda** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:29 pm

Cool Webley story, I have no idea if it is really true.

T.E. Lawrence, AKA Lawrence of Arabia, joined a WW1 night raid on a Turkish camp by his Bedouin allies. He rode a camel into the camp. The Camel went down like a rock, and Lawrence assumed it had been shot out from under him.

Closer examination showed his had actually accidentally shot his own Camel in the head with his Webley...

My Dad was in the mounted infantry in the Ohio National Guard in 1939. They practiced using sabers on horse back. He said a lot of those horses had bobbed ears!

Barracuda · Post by **Barracuda** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:36 pm

Digit, the story of the American Colt .45 caliber auto loading combat pistol is very similar, but it was the Moros of the Philippine islands that proved the previous American Army issued .38 (not to be confused with the .38 Special) as being underpowered.

The American pistol is .45 and the Webley is actually .455, but many were converted to shoot the American .45 auto rounds using half moon clips.

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:14 pm

I don't doubt for one moment that aWebley could stop a Camel, I think it could stop a tank!
Due to lack of experience with fire arms over here many people, officials and civilians, have a lot of strange ideas about them. For example, currently gun crime is on the rise over here with automatic weapons becoming more common, but you are three times more likely to be stabbed then shot, and the penalties for carrying a knife are nothing like for a firearm, this despite the fact that most deaths from both weapons are caused by loss of blood, and a sizable knife wound is likely to result in heavier bleeding than a small calibre pistol.
Some years ago a police officer was sent to house in London where he and his comrade were expexted to face a man believed to be armed with a shot gun. The officers were armed with S&W .38s and their orders were that the weapons must never be carried 'cocked'. The house in question had a front door opening onto a 4 foot wide hallway with a rooms at the far end, the door went in and the officers followed and one opened fire in the dark and his bullet severed the spine of an innocent woman.
The do gooders created Hell!
But to send officers into a 4 foot wide passage with an expected shot gun blast awaiting them, then complain that they should not have cocked their weapons, was totally insane and showed a total lack of reality amongst senior police officers.

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:08 pm

AUSTIN, Texas (AP) - A lawmaker in this firearm-friendly state wants to help more people get the chance to shoot live animals - even if those people can't see.

Ha! I missed this one, Min.

These "instructors" should definitely get hazardous duty pay...along with required, annual psychologic exams. Why the hell...ever mind...I hope these blind mofo's are eating these animals.

Post by **Minimalist** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:19 pm

Cheney is "hunting" small animals in cages. Why not just tie them to a tree so he can shoot them?

As Lewis Black says...."they've turned a petting zoo into Auschwitz."