Is the Jesus story an astrological allegory?

[Beagle]

How 'bout that? God's from Europe.

[Digit]

God is an Englisman Beag!

[Beagle]

Really? Well, at least he's not French then.

[Digit]

In reference to my ealier comments about Paul possibly knowing some of the disciples I noted this.

http://www.pasty.com/~barbspage/Disciples.html

[Minimalist]

Yeah...it's cold and it's dark and it's raining, here!

Sounds like a fairly typical English day.

[Cognito]

No one knows the actual birth date of Jesus.

Not only the day, but the year. The best guesses I have seen for the event are somewhere between 4bc and 7bc. On cross examination -- Christ takes the stand:



[Attorney]: So, Mr. Christ, alleged Son of God. When were you born?

[Christ]: Actually, in 4bc.

[Attorney]: Really? So you were born 4 years before yourself?

[Christ]: Well, you see, somebody made a mistake ...

[Attorney]: Your Honor, this witness has absolutely no credibility whatsoever.

[Judge]: Mr. Christ, you are bordering on contempt. Just answer the question without being flippant.

[Christ]: I don't have to put up with this. My Dad can zap all of you into the pits of Damnation in the blink of an eye!

[Judge]: Bailiff! Transport the defendent for an overnight in our best accomodations to settle him down. This case is postponed until 9am tomorrow and will resume at Golgotha.

[Ishtar]

Cogs, you're brilliant!

I could have done with you when I was doing my Jesus/Satan/Whore of Babylon pantomime on Koreabridge at Christmas!

[Minimalist]

I think you let Arch off the hook too easily, Ish.

With morons like that you can't stop until you tear out their throats.


Figuratively speaking, of course.

[Ishtar]

Min, I guess I just don't have your staying power.

I thought I won the argument with him many times, but he didn't have the wit to see it and just carried on regardless. I felt he was so stupid, he wasn't really a worthy opponent and in the end, it had all the fascination of trying to teach calculus to a monkey. In fact, a monkey might have picked it up quicker!

[Minimalist]

Don't enjoy the sheer thrill of just insulting him left and right, huh?

[Ishtar]

Don't enjoy the sheer thrill of just insulting him left and right, huh?

I'd say that's probably an acquired taste more likely to be taken up by the male of the species!

[Cognito]

I could have done with you when I was doing my Jesus/Satan/Whore of Babylon pantomime on Koreabridge at Christmas!

Ish, I threw in the court scene just to allude to the insanity of it all. We really know nothing about Christ first-hand, but countless millions have died in his name and to defend his existence as God incarnate. As the Judge would say, it's all hearsay.

My personal viewpoint is that he probably walked the earth just like any other person, but probably more influential than most in that dinky, dust-covered outback called Palestine. However, he likely breathed, choked, swore and took craps just like the rest of us. Now, for his mother ... the "Virgin" Mary? That I just couldn't fall for even as a 10-year old. I guess I just never measured up in the blind faith and intolerance areas. So who were Christ's brothers and sisters when he went to preach in the temple in Nazareth? Virgin my ass.

Let's get a grip on reality here. The Jews are blown out of Jerusalem in 70AD and zippo -- no more biblical documents. What happened? God decided that the world was unimportant from then on? Or did the story just hit a dead end due to a lack of imagination? I am not an atheist, but I always assumed that the Bible was a PR document written by Jewish men.

[Minimalist]

Interesting take, Cogs.

In fact, both 'Yeshua' and 'Yosip' were very common names in the first century AD so, mathematically, there were probably dozens of Yeshua bar Yosips walking around loose.

So, it's not the name that is important but the deeds (miracles?) and/or sayings as recorded in the gospels. That is what makes "Jesus" not just the name. Without that, what is there to worship?

[Ishtar]

My personal viewpoint is that he probably walked the earth just like any other person, but probably more influential than most in that dinky, dust-covered outback called Palestine. However, he likely breathed, choked, swore and took craps just like the rest of us.

I'm surprised that you still think that, Cogs, after hearing about all the similar stories about just such a person, even down to the Virgin birth, the 12 disciples, the miracles, the three days on the Cross and the resurrection. And that these similar stories stretch back to 3,000 BC.

I've known for a long time about these myth commonalities, but not known why these stories were told. That's why I'm fascinated now by the idea that it could be astrological allegory. Apparently, it's called astrotheism.

Although we ditched the Southern Cross idea, I think I'm right in saying that we didn't find any fault with the rest of the theory - that of

• Sirius being 'followed' by the The Three Kings, and the trajectory pointing to where the Sun (Sun God) will start to rise again on December 25.
  Sirius (the bright Star in the East) and the Three Kings being in the constellation of Virgo at that time of the year
  The Three Kings are in the belt of Orion. Thus the original hymn line was probably "We three kings of Orion are" and not "We three kings of Orient are"
  The Virgin Mary tying in with Virgo
  Virgo also being known as the house of bread, which is why Virgo carried stalks of wheat
  Bethlehem translated as house of bread (from Hebrew)
  That this birth of Sun God on December 25 was celebrated by countless pagan civilisations worldwide

If everyone is content that we've established no great objection to that bit of the astrotheism, I'd like to present the second part of this theory which is based on the 12 disciples.

[Forum Monk]

If everyone is content that we've established no great objection to that bit of the astrotheism

I have plenty of objections to your conclusion. Unfortunately, I am unable to persue it today, due to other commitments.