He times his prayers for the start of the rainy season.
Stone Age Boats
You rotten cynics you lot!"THERE AIN'T NO SUCH THING."
Moderators: MichelleH, Minimalist, JPeters
Yes!john wrote:
Ishtar,
The Shamanic worldview takes time, space, matter and awareness as simultaneous, heterogenous, and manipulable. Therefore, we are each and all of us are ultimate beings (this includes all forms of life, including planets, galaxies, rocks, oceans, etc.) who happen to share the responsibility for keeping this simultaneous and heterogenous
order in harmony.
eventually -- it is thought early in the thrid millenium - the proto-Indo-Iranians drifted apart, to become identifiable by speech as two distinct peoples, the Indians and Iranians. They were still pastoralists; and they had contact, presumably through trade, with the settled peoples to the south of them.
We need to look at this map again:Minimalist wrote:Which does bring up the question of who were those "settled people" to the south? What is south of the Russian steppes? Afghanistan?
They have found a lot of archaeological remains in this area, but none - and I repeat none - leading into India. Which is why most archaeos say:
The world's largest zone of all steppes, often referred to as "the Great Steppe", is found in southwest Russia and neighbouring countries in Central Asia, stretching from Ukraine in the west to the Ural Mountains and the Caspian Sea. To the east of the Caspian Sea, the steppes extend through Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan to the Altai, Koppet Dag and Tian Shan ranges. The vast Eurasian Steppe, as it is called, incorporates all of these steppes. The area is bordered in the north, on the eastern side of the Urals, by the forested West Siberian Plain taiga, extending nearly as far as the Arctic Ocean.
And the geneticists do not support any migration, AT ANY TIME, through the northwest passage:Jim Shaffer wrote, "Current archaeological data do not support the existence of an Indo-Aryan or European invasion into South Asia any time in the pre- or protohistoric periods. Instead, it is possible to document archaeologically a series of cultural changes reflecting indigenous cultural developments from prehistoric to historic periods"[12] The vast majority of the professional archaeologists Bryant (2001) interviewed in India insisted that there was no convincing archaeological evidence whatsoever to support any claims of external Indo-Aryan origins.[13] Kenoyer (as cited in Bryant 2001:231) and Shaffer (as cited in Bryant 2001:232) argue that current evidence does not support an invasion of South Asia in the pre- or proto-historic periods.
The last sentence refers to the Parsees who migrated into India to escape the Moslem invasion of Persia around 1000 years ago.Kenneth A.R. Kennedy, a U.S. expert who has extensively studied such skeletal remains, observes, "Biological anthropologists remain unable to lend support to any of the theories concerning an Aryan biological or demographic entity."[23] Chaubey et al. (2007) find that most of the India-specific mtDNA haplogroups show coalescent times of 40 to 60 millennia ago. Sahoo et al. (2006) states that "there is general agreement that Indian caste and tribal populations share a common late Pleistocene maternal ancestry in India" and that it is not necessary, based on the current evidence, to look beyond South Asia for the origins of the paternal heritage of the majority of Indians at the time of the onset of settled agriculture. The perennial concept of people, language, and agriculture arriving to India together through the northwest corridor does not hold up to close scrutiny. Recent claims for a linkage of haplogroups J2, L, R1a, and R2 with a contemporaneous origin for the majority of the Indian castes' paternal lineages from outside the subcontinent are rejected, although our findings do support a local origin of haplogroups F* and H. Of the others, only J2 indicates an unambiguous recent external contribution, from West Asia rather than Central Asia.
Avestan 'angra mainyu' "seems to have been an original conception of Zoroaster's."[1] In the Gathas, which are the oldest texts of Zoroastrianism and are attributed to the prophet himself, 'angra mainyu' is not yet a proper name.[a] In the one instance in these hymns where the two words appear together, the concept spoken of is that of a mainyu ("mind", "mentality", "spirit" etc) that is angra ("destructive", "inhibitive", "malign" etc). In this single instance - in Yasna 45.2 - the "more bounteous of the spirits twain" declares 'angra mainyu' to be its "absolute antithesis."[1]
PS I still don't follow why you think people cannot be advanced in their philosophical thinking while being HGs or pastoralists?
How much surplus and intellect and leisure do you have? Masses. And how religious are you?Minimalist wrote: Agrculture is what provides the food surpluses for a leisure/intellectual class to develop.
This is not in line with current thinking about the HG lifestyle - that we never had it so good and it was the 'original affluent society'.HGs and pastoralists are always too busy surviving.
The Vedics, who we know were semi-nomadic, had a very deep philosophic relationship with the cosmos, plus a pantheon of gods (as the Greeks would say) with a father of the gods called Dyaus Pitar.As American anthropologist Marshal Sahlins pointed out, many hunter-gatherer societies represent the original affluent society because only a small proportion of their time was spent obtaining food and the basic needs of life.
... and in Judaeo Christianity as God the Father.In the Vedic religion, Dyaus Pitar is the Sky Father, husband of Prithvi and father of Agni and Indra (RV 4.17.4).
His origins can be traced to the Proto-Indo-European sky god *Dyeus, who appears in Greek as Zeus pater (accusative Día, genitive Diòs), in Latin as Jupiter (from archaic Latin Iovis pater, "Sky father"), in Slavic mythology as Div, and Germanic and Norse mythology as Tyr or Ziu.