The Boat Post

[john]

All -

Please allow me to introduce myself
Im a man of wealth and taste
Ive been around for a long, long year
Stole many a mans soul and faith
And I was round when jesus christ
Had his moment of doubt and pain
Made damn sure that pilate
Washed his hands and sealed his fate
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name
But whats puzzling you
Is the nature of my game
I stuck around st. petersburg
When I saw it was a time for a change
Killed the czar and his ministers
Anastasia screamed in vain
I rode a tank
Held a generals rank
When the blitzkrieg raged
And the bodies stank
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name, oh yeah
Ah, whats puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, oh yeah
I watched with glee
While your kings and queens
Fought for ten decades
For the gods they made
I shouted out,
Who killed the kennedys?
When after all
It was you and me
Let me please introduce myself
Im a man of wealth and taste
And I laid traps for troubadours
Who get killed before they reached bombay
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah
But whats puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, oh yeah, get down, baby
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, oh yeah
But whats confusing you
Is just the nature of my game
Just as every cop is a criminal
And all the sinners saints
As heads is tails
Just call me lucifer
cause Im in need of some restraint
So if you meet me
Have some courtesy
Have some sympathy, and some taste
Use all your well-learned politesse
Or Ill lay your soul to waste, um yeah
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, um yeah
But whats puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, um mean it, get down
Woo, who
Oh yeah, get on down
Oh yeah
Oh yeah!
Tell me baby, whats my name
Tell me honey, can ya guess my name
Tell me baby, whats my name
I tell you one time, youre to blame
Ooo, who
Ooo, who
Ooo, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Oh, yeah
Whats me name
Tell me, baby, whats my name
Tell me, sweetie, whats my name
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Oh, yeah


Courtesy of Mick Jagger , et alia

The thing here, is,

The Earth has been alive with hominids and cultures

And "religions" for a very long time.

To continue to stuff ten pounds of shit

Into the one pound sack of the latter Middle Eastern Jesus-Fest,

Topologically speaking

Is crap.

I am very specifically referring to the development

Of cognition.

So, I offer this thread

As a very open ended discussion

To this end.

As such,

It begins with no presuppositions.

And I would hope would continue the same way.

So, as it is

I am not going to lay down any over

Riding intellectual structure. Rather,

This thread - potentially -

Will grow itself,

Rather than the pattern of tiresome

And irritating recourses to sources

Who are somewhere between "doubtful"

and "idiotic".

OK

Now, about boats.

Vessels, to be exact.

It doesn't matter whether you are building a thing

Made of planks and tar and cordage,

To transport you from here to there,

Or if you are building a thing

Made of cognition and knowledge and experiential cordage

To transport your life from here to there

All within your life, as short as it is

And with luck, your children's lives, also.

Point being,

What, just exactly,

Is the state of being alive?


And that gets us right the hell back to handaxes

And cavepaintings,

Not the thirdhand political/religious manipulations

Of any set of scriptures you would choose to quote.


hoka hey

john

[Minimalist]

John, I'm simply astonished that you got through that whole, long, post without using the word "hematite."

[john]

John, I'm simply astonished that you got through that whole, long, post without using the word "hematite."

HEMATITE

j

[Minimalist]

Much better.

[john]

Much better.

Minimalist -

Not to mention certain high-end

Floridian Textiles.


j

[Minimalist]

They are about to get their Floridian knickers blown off by Ike in the next day or so.

[pattylt]

Can I start with a question? (Well, I am going to anyway...)
Could you all inform me what the "boat" controversy is? I am gathering that there is a dispute as to when early man first made a trip in one and where he went but what exactly is the controversy and ramifications?

[Minimalist]

The Archaeological Club thinks that human use of boats is a relatively recent feature which can only have been accomplished by us smart modern HSS types because Homoe Erectus and Neanderthal were just too stupid to ever figure out something so complicated.

Quite a few of us have been persuaded by the work of Robert Bednarik, that human seafaring goes back to 850,000 years ago and could only have been done, at that time, by Homo Erectus.

The Club thinks that because they don't have the remains of a boat that old that there cannot have been boats that old...which is simply silly.

http://mc2.vicnet.net.au/home/mariners/ ... iners.html

One of the most significant finds in the history of archaeology is the recent discovery that hominids of more than 850 000 years ago managed to cross the sea to colonise a number of Indonesian islands. Nusa Tenggara, the islands east of Bali, have never been connected to either Asia or Australia, but they were found to have been occupied by Homo erectus as well as by several endemic species of Stegodonts (extinct elephants) early in the Ice Age. Until recently, it had been assumed that the first sea crossings occurred no more than 60 000 years ago.

These crossings of several sea barriers involved the use of watercraft, so this was the first time in human history that our ancestors entrusted their destiny to a contraption designed to harness the energies of nature. All human development followed on from that first triumph of the human spirit, it set the course of the human ascent right up to the present day. In comparison to this achievement, Neil Armstrong's 'giant leap of mankind' was indeed a small step for man.

[seeker]

All we need to do is find a neolithic stone boat

[kbs2244]

One of the reasons they do not find the remains of really old boats is the fact that they were made of bundles of reeds.
The reeds would rot or be burned for fuel when the boat reached the end of its life span.
The whole reed boat concept is very hard for the European mind set to get into its head.
As is the concept that people do not always build things they expect to last forever.
In the tropics, where things grow so fast, you do not need things made of 100 year old oaks and designed to last generations.
Replacement materials are easy to come by.
Single use tools and equipment are common.

[Cognito]

One of the reasons they do not find the remains of really old boats is the fact that they were made of bundles of reeds.

Og: "What are you doing?"

Grog: "Making a boat."

Og: "From reeds?"

Grog: "Of course, you retard. Why not?"

Og: "Because 850,000 years from now there won't be any trace of it and the really smart people won't know we could build boats!"

Grog: "Well, then. They're just as stupid as you are!"

[Minimalist]

[john]

Can I start with a question? (Well, I am going to anyway...)
Could you all inform me what the "boat" controversy is? I am gathering that there is a dispute as to when early man first made a trip in one and where he went but what exactly is the controversy and ramifications?

Patty -

To make a very long story very short

The physical object of a boat is immaterial.

The cognitive ability which led to the shaping

Of flint, or wood, or a boat, or the Willendorf Venus for that matter

Is material.

And then you get into navigation...............

"Once you have built the impossible,

How do you get the sumbitch out of the

Basement you built it in?"

This, by the way,

Is my take on the progress/history

Of Cognition.

Note that I don't use the phrase

"Human cognition", because it just ain't so.

So, let's take the stupid/stupid argument,

Which more or less goes this way -

"Previous to this time/species constraint, Hominids were

too stupid to be Hominids, let alone build boats".

Which leads us to the refreshing argument that

Cognition only belongs to he Cognoscenti.

Who are handpicked by those who

Control religion, economics, political power.

A devastatingly effective circular argument.

My point?

A whole bunch of proto-humans built and

Navigated watercraft worldwide

Well before modren Europeans "invented"

The entire idea of sailing.

Even the Phoenicians are a sort of

Redhaired Stepchild in the historical boat world.

The fact is,

Those who think they are in control of history

Really have a problem with boats.

Once again, the real issue is the commonly accepted level of cognition,

Not some possibly physical object.


hoka hey

john

[Minimalist]

..............and that should clear everything up, Patty!

[john]

..............and that should clear everything up, Patty!

"True sailing is dead".

Jim Morrison

j