Shaman in China

[kbs2244]

Those shaman's always seem to get the good stuff.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadi ... RlmnGXpuvw

I am not real conversational about the stuff, but 789 grams seems like a lot.
Is it?

[john]

Those shaman's always seem to get the good stuff.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadi ... RlmnGXpuvw

I am not real conversational about the stuff, but 789 grams seems like a lot.
Is it?

kbs224 -

Works out to about 1.74 pounds.

However, if you take in to account that it was utterly

Dessicated, it originally was probably really close

To the classic measure of trade the infamous "kilo"

i.e. 2.2 pounds!

Of far more interest to me is that we have a Westerner

In Northern China with

Archery equipment,

And a Harp.

The Harp is a new one on me.

There have been a number of other discoveries

Of Westerners in Northern China,

Characterised by blond or red hair, blues eyes,

Dressed in woven wool, parti-colored clothing,

A lot like far later descriptions of Scythians.

The present Chinese Government has been

Remarkably tight-lipped about the whole thing.

Nationalism first, despite ultimate origins, as usual.

Kinda reminds me of boats.


hoka hey


john

[MichelleH]

Ah john, would you be thinking of the Loulan Beauty?

Here is a very recent article:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/11/19/asia/19mummy.php

[john]

Ah john, would you be thinking of the Loulan Beauty?

Here is a very recent article:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/11/19/asia/19mummy.php

Michelle -

Actually, I have been watching events in the Tarim Basin for awhile.

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/Displayarti ... pril37.xml

It would appear that there were certain well established trade

Routes encompassing Europe and Asia well before

Accepted historical theories (read Das Klub).

I have a personal axe to grind in this medley:

My blood type is B negative,

My appearance is that of a typical tall blond hazel eyed Nordic,

With the bloodlines to back it up.

Yet I know that type B came out of Central Asia maybe

Nine or ten K years ago with

The spread of the Scythians.

Most of the iterations have been focused on Iran

And the Sephardic Jews.

However, there is also a clear Scythian trail headed

Up North, and West, clear to Denmark

And Northern Europe, where both sides of my family came from.

Now, the kicker.

A harp is ontologically a unique instrument.

Yet, like Hematite, it keeps showing up here and there, across

Huge geographical and temporal distances.

This is the first I have heard of the harp

In NW China.

I would give a lot to see

A picture of that harp.


hoka hey

john

[Cognito]

The marijuana was found to have a relatively high content of THC, the main active ingredient in cannabis, but the sample was too old to determine a precise percentage.

This was some good shit.

The tomb also contained bridles, archery equipment and a harp, confirming the man's high social standing.

The harp is the national symbol of Ireland, more importantly being prevalent in Celtic society at 700bc, the time of the shaman's burial. Or, should we refer to him as a Druid? Wherever he came from people certainly did get around, contrary to popular opinion among scientists.

John, you are referring to the proto-Tocharians who were traveling and trading on the Silk Road as early as 15,000bp.



See: http://www.enter.net/~torve/trogholm/wo ... pean4.html

The climate in Central Asia was totally different at 13,000bc versus today. Most of the Silk Road at that time was passable by boat at various elevations with one, short overland portage. North of that pathway, for about 2-3,000 years it was possible to boat downstream from Lake Baikal to the Mediterranean due to the post-LGM ice lakes that had formed.

[john]

The marijuana was found to have a relatively high content of THC, the main active ingredient in cannabis, but the sample was too old to determine a precise percentage.

This was some good shit.

The tomb also contained bridles, archery equipment and a harp, confirming the man's high social standing.

The harp is the national symbol of Ireland, more importantly being prevalent in Celtic society at 700bc, the time of the shaman's burial. Or, should we refer to him as a Druid? Wherever he came from people certainly did get around, contrary to popular opinion among scientists.

John, you are referring to the proto-Tocharians who were traveling and trading on the Silk Road as early as 15,000bp.



See: http://www.enter.net/~torve/trogholm/wo ... pean4.html

The climate in Central Asia was totally different at 13,000bc versus today. Most of the Silk Road at that time was passable by boat at various elevations with one, short overland portage. North of that pathway, for about 2-3,000 years it was possible to boat downstream from Lake Baikal to the Mediterranean due to the post-LGM ice lakes that had formed.

Cognito -

Wow. Yes. Somebody else been doing his homework, too,

Around here.

And, obviously, the proto - T's

Put the kibosh on pretty much

The whole Aryan advertisement.

It would appear,

With this 'hyar character,

Buried with his stash and his axe,

Speaks to us of a rather mature

Development of travel, trade,

And cross cultural integration

- including that lovely ghost of linguistic hierarchy -

Which, as it stands,

Insinuates thousands of years of prior practise.

Note: I'm off to San Fransisco for a couple days for a wedding,

Travelling light, so no 'pute.

Keep this one going.


hoka hey

john

[kbs2244]

Cog:
Are you saying the orginal "Silk Road" could have been a canal?
Wow!

Didn't some of those male mummy's have tartan kilts?
But I think the red hair part may be over stated.
Isn't there some evidance that hair of any orginal color may turn reddish with age?

And isn't there a story of a Roman Legion sent as an envoy to China that got cut off due to poltics back home and decided to just settle down where they were?
I belive by that time Roman legions did not always have a lot of Italian DNA in them.

[Minimalist]

I think the story was that a bunch of Roman p-o-ws were re-settled by the Parthians on their eastern border and they ended up in China, or something like that.

[john]

I think the story was that a bunch of Roman p-o-ws were re-settled by the Parthians on their eastern border and they ended up in China, or something like that.

Minimalist -

http://www.iranchamber.com/history/part ... thians.php

However, there is a rather significant time difference between

The Loulan Beauty

And the supposed resettlement of Roman

Prisoners of War.

Like approx. 4k years.

Is Das Klub disputing this?

hoka hey

john

[john]

Cog:
Are you saying the orginal "Silk Road" could have been a canal?
Wow!

Didn't some of those male mummy's have tartan kilts?
But I think the red hair part may be over stated.
Isn't there some evidance that hair of any orginal color may turn reddish with age?

And isn't there a story of a Roman Legion sent as an envoy to China that got cut off due to poltics back home and decided to just settle down where they were?
I belive by that time Roman legions did not always have a lot of Italian DNA in them.

kbs224 -

This may be of interest...........

http://www.livevideo.com/video/911Guard ... es-si.aspx

hoka hey

john

[john]

All -

Now, about them thar ancient maps

Presently being discussed in the New World thread.

Boats, hematite, cognition

- and, possibly, certain herbs -

Anyway, there is this interesting jazz term,

Called Fusion.

Consider this with regard to

West and East

And great antiquity.

hoka hey

john

[Minimalist]

Is Das Klub disputing this?

I don't think so.

There is evidence (Herodotus) of a Scythian invasion of the M/E in the 7th century and they were still capable of defeating one of Alexander's generals c 330. We have an "end" for the Scythians when they were defeated by Mithradates Eupator and incorporated into the Empire of Pontus in the early second century BC but they could have existed for who-knows-how-long in the north. Certainly contact with China seems logical.

[Cognito]

Cog:
Are you saying the orginal "Silk Road" could have been a canal?
Wow!

Nope. I am saying that water transport played an important part prior to Holocene dessication. In moving from West to East and back again people followed animal trails, many which followed rivers and lakes for obvious reasons - fresh water. Post-LGM it was possible to move along or in the water for most of the length (excepting about a 200 mile portage) for a few thousand years.

If I wanted to return from China I would fast-track my way back from Lake Baikal, floating south with the current all the way to the Mediterranean. At that time the Caspian was overflowing into the Black Sea and, according to Aksu et al, the Bosporus was an outlet stream. It didn't open up until about 12,400bc due to an upriver, ice dam megaflood as evidenced by one of two deltas on the Mediterranean side.

[kbs2244]

John:
Interesting video.
One comment caught my interest.
They mentioned a “Silk Road civilization.”
All along the road but never far from it.

In another life I used to make sales calls through out the state of Iowa.
Interstate 80 cuts Iowa into a north and south half for the length of the state.
I80 goes from San Francisco to New York.
It is the US equal to the Silk Road.
I would not call it a civilization, but there is a definite “culture” along I80 that is different from what you find as soon as you get 10 or more miles to one side or the other.
Away from the road the locals refer to it as “the sewer.”
But along the road there seems little or no acknowledgement of life to the north or south of it.
All references are in an east/west direction.
I have heard an unmistakable Brooklyn accent in a truck stop in Omaha and no one thought anything of it.
10 miles to the north the lady would not have been understood.

But both cultures depend on each other.
Much of the grain grown away from it get trucked to and then along it.
And virtually all the consumer goods sold in the stores gets there via it.

The more things change; to more they stay the same.

[john]

John:
Interesting video.
One comment caught my interest.
They mentioned a “Silk Road civilization.”
All along the road but never far from it.

In another life I used to make sales calls through out the state of Iowa.
Interstate 80 cuts Iowa into a north and south half for the length of the state.
I80 goes from San Francisco to New York.
It is the US equal to the Silk Road.
I would not call it a civilization, but there is a definite “culture” along I80 that is different from what you find as soon as you get 10 or more miles to one side or the other.
Away from the road the locals refer to it as “the sewer.”
But along the road there seems little or no acknowledgement of life to the north or south of it.
All references are in an east/west direction.
I have heard an unmistakable Brooklyn accent in a truck stop in Omaha and no one thought anything of it.
10 miles to the north the lady would not have been understood.

But both cultures depend on each other.
Much of the grain grown away from it get trucked to and then along it.
And virtually all the consumer goods sold in the stores gets there via it.

The more things change; to more they stay the same.

kbs224 -

Oh man you make a point there.

I've run I 80 nearly end to end a few times, and you are exactly right.

On the West Coast here its I-5., the main North/South Interstate

From border to border.

The best description I've heard ever of this road

Came from a friend of mine who lived, for transportation,

On his Iron Horse,

A 1976 750cc Norton Combat Commando Interstate,

Which was your typical Norton with a bigger gas tank

And electric start.

Early one Friday evening he stopped by my house,

Went straight to the refrig, grabbed a beer and chugged

It straight down, then grabbed another and did the same.

With third in hand, he said

"That Goddamned Ribbon of Hate."

I was a little bit mystified, because he's a pretty laid back guy.

Well, he'd been run off the road twice on his commute

Down I-5.

Almost had to lay his bike down on the second one.

The phrase has always stuck in my mind.

And, believe me, to this day if you are running I-5,

Short hop or roadtripping, it fits.

I'd like to think that things were a little less polarized

Along the Silk Road,

But I might be wrong.

hoka hey


john