Classical Drug users.

[kbs2244]

I have just finished reading a very good book for all of us that question the mainstream view.

“The Chemical Muse”
Subtitled
“Drug Use and the Roots of Western Civilization”
Written by
D.C.A. Hillman

ISBN
13:978-0-312-35249-3
10:0-312-35249-2

In it the author, who got his MS bacteriology before his MA and PhD in classics, takes on the pretty well establishment view of no drug use in classical Greek and Roman life.
And he documents how all the evidence to the contrary is danced around.

His background in a somewhat medicinal field gives him a perspective that almost all classical scholars lack.

In contrast, he lays out an argument that one of the core freedoms in the celebrated Athenian and Roman democracies were the use of “recreational” drugs by the populace.
Only the on purpose overdose use of them as a murder weapon was outlawed.

He goes through the many myths and plays and classical poems, finding pretty good references to the growth, use, and effects of many drugs in classical times.

His major argument is that drug use, mainly opium, was used as a “painkiller” and “relaxant” against the hardships of daily life.
Does that sound familiar?

He gives only a small paragraph to the possibility of cocaine, a western hemisphere drug, in his 225 pages, but he still gets his point across.

As in many books of this sort, the introduction, where he details the need to remove any drug use from his thesis, and the conclusive chapter, where he wraps up his argument, are the best.

But in between is enough detail to support his argument that the founders of the philosophy behind Western Civilizations were, if not personally indulging, at least were accepting the use of recreational drugs by almost everybody, makes it a good read.

[Rokcet Scientist]

Drug traficking was the engine that drove civilization, trade, and exploration.

[E.P. Grondine]

Drug traficking was the engine that drove civilization, trade, and exploration.

The short answer is "No.", in my opinion.

The longer answer is RS, if you're going to be studying ancient use of psycho-active factors, then you need to clearly understand the difference between medical,"religious", and recreational use.

[Rokcet Scientist]

if you're going to be studying ancient use of psycho-active factors, then you need to clearly understand the difference between medical,"religious", and recreational use.

Use is use. And users are users. And, even better for los traficantes, the majority of users are junkies. Who really need their fix. Creating high prices, captive markets and guaranteed sales. Drugs are a dream commodity.

Did you know that as much as 40% of medical doctors enjoy their own pharmaceuticals for recreational purposes. So your 'differences' between types of use, and users, are rather 'mixed' IRL.

[kbs2244]

“if you're going to be studying ancient use of psycho-active factors, then you need to clearly understand the difference between medical, "religious", and recreational use.”

You should read the book E.P.

It is pretty well referenced.

And a major point that he makes is that those distinctions were not made in those days.

[Rokcet Scientist]

And a major point that he makes is that those distinctions were not made in those days.

Precisely! You're applying our cultural norms, values, and prejudices to their culture(s), E.P.
That's just as off the mark as applying the norms, values, and prejudices of the council of Nicaea to our 21st century culture(s). And, and, and.

When my tomcat was a year old I spent thousands of bucks on specialist surgery and 3 tough months of rehabilitation fixing his surfacing inbred birth defect (patella luxation). That was 10 years ago and he's still with me today, healthy and happy.
40 Years ago (his breed didn't even exist yet then...) I would have had a cat like him euthanised. In a way we would not accept as 'humane' today.
That's how fast culture changes.



Isn't he GORGEOUS!

[E.P. Grondine]

I stand by what I told you, RS. While ancient world views naturally differ from ours today, if you yourself today are going to be studying the ancient use of psycho-active factors, then you need to clearly understand the difference between medical,"religious", and recreational use and have a pretty good handle on that before you begin.

The book does sound like a fascinating read.

[kbs2244]

State side it can be found here

http://www.edwardrhamilton.com/titles/1 ... 22328.html

[Digit]

As regards drugs driving exploration RS I suspect that Cook, Magellan, Drake, Columbus etc might well have disagreed. The same would be true of the Vikings, crossing from Asia to America and OOA.
One of the most common reasons for the 'age of exploration' was spices.

Roy.

Roy.

[Minimalist]

Cute cat.

[Rokcet Scientist]

As regards drugs driving exploration RS I suspect that Cook, Magellan, Drake, Columbus etc might well have disagreed.

"Cook, Magellan, Drake, Columbus etc" were only gophers.
You would have to go to their paymasters for the motivations for those explorations.

One of the most common reasons for the 'age of exploration' was spices.

A.k.a. a euphemism for drugs...

[Digit]

Gopers they may have been but they didn't go fer drugs, gold etc, yes, and I don't think that Cloves, Almonds, etc will get you very high.
I know of no suggestion of the Dutch East India Co being drug peddlars either.

Roy.

[Rokcet Scientist]

Gopers they may have been but they didn't go fer drugs, gold etc,

They went 1) because they were told to, 2) because the pay + bonus was great, 3) because their egos screwed them up into risk taking.
In that order.
TBH, their motivations for going weren't really very interesting. Their paymasters' for funding those ventures are.

I don't think that Cloves, Almonds, etc will get you very high.

As high as you like, depending on the refinery process and application. They can even get you dead if you OD on them. Exactly like with coke, heroin, etc.
You've got some more research on drugs to do, I see.

I know of no suggestion of the Dutch East India Co being drug peddlars either.

It was a shameful past so it was skillfully ignored in the Victorian and Calvinist 19th century. So skillful that people like you now even loudly deny it could ever have been possible.
The UK has plenty of similar episodes that everybody has been trying very hard to forget. Like e.g. the opium trade of the 18th and 19th centuries...

[Digit]

They can even get you dead.

I am aware of what Almonds can do actually, also Strawberries, Salt and even water, but none are drugs as such in their general usage.
As for research, having been addicted to barbiturates, plus my recent sojourn in hospital as a result of drugs, is as much research as I wish to engage in thank you.

So skillful that people like you now even loudly deny it could ever have been possible.

So what drugs did the DEIC trade in exactly?

Roy.

[Rokcet Scientist]

They can even get you dead.

I am aware of what Almonds can do actually, also Strawberries, Salt and even water, but none are drugs as such in their general usage.

In their general usage now, here, in the west. But that can easily change. Did you know that most people with town gardens have, on average, at least a dozen quite mundane flora species on hand that they can refine in their kitchens into potent drugs? Only most haven't a clue that they could do that. They simply don't know!

Recognise this one from your own garden for instance?



That's Datura (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datura). A witch's favourite! It's everywhere!

So what drugs did the DEIC trade in exactly?

Like you said: almonds and cloves. Officially. For 200 years. And anything they could lay their hands on during their long journey, of course.
It made the DEIC the largest multinational corporation the world had ever seen. Recalculated to today's values they were about 20 times the size of GM...
Drug running is the most profitable business in the world. And has been from day one.

FYI: cloves are still in wide-spread use as drugs today. Just not in your neck of the woods. And hence you're not aware of it. But in Indonesia millions of people smoke very thin socalled kretek cigarettes every day. That's cloves! Not tobacco!