Trans-oceanic contacts

[Cognito]

Yes, with a twist. Tenochtitlan was actually built in the middle of a lake - a defensive strategy - and food was imported. Many Mayan cities were built over cenotes, sources of water from underground rivers running through the limestone. The Inca capital of Cuzco is located on Rio Huallaga and surrrounded by what was once excellent farmland. Need to have plentiful water and arable land for agriculture to support the population.

[Digit]

The reason I asked was on the subject of sanitation, it appears that those places that weren't constructed on river banks seem to have used a supply of running water, from surrounding hills for example, and developed sanitation much earlier than those placed on rivers.

Roy.

[Cognito]

Roy, the city sanitation and water supply system at Palenque in the Yucatan would rival anything built today. It is all the more impressive since it worked on hydraulic pressure throughout (advance planning that you as an engineer can appreciate) - running water, waste removal, fountains, etc. Try finding those items in a Medieval European city. Those amenities went away with the decline of Rome only to return post-Renaissance.

[Digit]

Exactly, the Cretans and parts of India acheived the same thing, but it seems to me that Europe's problems started when they began to spread away from river banks. Whilst habitation was limited to a narrow strip on each side of the river no major problems arose, as they moved away from the rivers well water supplied their water needs, but could not solve the sewage problem.
Bathing also becomes a major undertaking when you've got to hump water long distances and heat it as well.

Roy.

[Cognito]

... but it seems to me that Europe's problems started when they began to spread away from river banks.

Au contraire. The Romans solved the problem of water, bathing and sanitation quite well while exporting that part of their culture throughout Europe with the exception of the Germanic tribes, some irascible Picts and a throng of stubborn Irish. The Fall of Rome didn't usher in the Dark Ages, it ushered in the Smelly Ages as Europeans discarded hygeine in the name of Christianity.

[Digit]

It was the Germanic tribes, ie northern Europe, that I was thinking about.

Roy.

[Cognito]

It was the Germanic tribes, ie northern Europe, that I was thinking about.

Well, why didn't you say so? The Germanic tribes have been wallowing in mud for eons!


Note to above:

(1) My maternal grandmother's maiden name was Weismandel - I speak from experience.

[E.P. Grondine]

As I said, E.P. you parading OT horseshit as reality is not going to get us anywhere.

min, let me summarize my position again, since yoou mistate it.

I established a chronology as best I could unsing other materials.
I then found that OT chronology closely matched.
What doumentary sources were used to write the OT, whose they were, and what they contianed are open questions.
I am hoping for finds of cuneifrom archives or inscriptions from major cities in the area to help answer many of those questions
My primary insterest is in the Aegean, specifically the "Minoans".

The spiritual guidance passed on in the OT haz been used by millions of people to improve thier lives.
I pretty much know why I wrote "Man and Impacr in the Americas", so it is fair for me to ask you why you are a "minimalist", and why you put such effort into it.

[E.P. Grondine]

As I said, E.P. you parading OT horseshit as reality is not going to get us anywhere.

this is kind of wierd. I apologize if I am out of line but it seemed like he said that his timeline coinciding with the old testement was coincidental and was based on other forms of dating. So why not refute those forms of dating. I only comment because I am interested in this topic.

Thanks, cog, and thank you for your opinion on my book as well, min.
Coming from you, that opinion is a compliment.

[hardaker]

Two Diffusionist Wet Dreams:
A couple works that blow a monster hole in American anti-diffusionist archaeology.

The Lost Empire of Atlantis: History's Greatest Mystery Revealed, by Gavin Menzies
http://www.amazon.com/Lost-Empire-Atlan ... 320&sr=1-1
About the Minoans, and that they were involved in the mining of L. Superior's Isle Royale for all those tons and tons of copper to fuel the Bronze Age.

And the big one:
Across Atlantic Ice: The Origin of America's Clovis Culture
Dennis J. Stanford, Bruce A. Bradley
The Solutrean Connection, which is also trans-oceanic.

[Minimalist]

Because I've read his book, Cogs.

This passage is not from the book...I guess, it may be in there, too... but from a conference.

http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc012102.html

The first written source for the event, the one with which Conference
participants are probably most familiar, is the biblical book of Joshua,
which admittedly was composed quite a while after the impact event itself.
To summarize once again the account in Joshua, the Israelites leave Egypt at
the time of the eruption of Thera in 1628 BC. They are repulsed at Rephidim,
return to the desert, eliminate the Kohath faction, and establish themselves
on the east bank of the Jordan in lands which were long before under Horim
(Hurrian) control. By the year count within Joshua, this brings us to around
1588 BC.

The Israelites begin to move across the Jordan, and after a particularly
savage attack on Ai, a "multi-national" force is assembled by the Hittites
to stop them. It is important to note that while some researchers point to
one particular tel as Ai, and to the lack of a destruction level there as
proof that the Joshua account is fictional, the identification of this
particular tel as Ai is not universally accepted, and there is another tel
nearby which remains uninvestigated and ignored.

Under the leadership of Joshua, the Israelites launch a night attack on the
Hittite "multi-national" force, and as the force regroups the impact event
occurs: "And it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, and were
going down to Beth-horon, that the Lord cast down great stones from heaven
upon them unto Azekah, and they died. More died with hailstones than they
whom the children of Israel slew with the sword." The Israelites then went
on to slaughter and enslave a large region, dividing the land ca 1583 BC.

E.P. has an impact event for almost everything in human history. It is hard to take seriously.