Mississippi Embayment/Bolide Astrobleme

[Kalopin]

Hello,
I am looking for those that may have an interest to further investigate recent findings concerning the events surrounding December 16, 1811. There is a central concave structure in Northeastern Marshall County, Mississippi which every hill in the valley emanates out from in a shockwave pattern. On the northwest face numerous highly unusual rocks were found with all aspects in appearance to impactites.

There are many unanswered questions that only an impact scenario can answer. Would anyone know of a research team willing to study this in better detail? Does there appear to be a shockwave pattern? Thanks

[circumspice]

Send a message to E.P. Grondine. He's the resident impact specialist.

Type 'impact' in the search box & it will pull up his threads on the subject of impacts.

[Kalopin]

Send a message to E.P. Grondine. He's the resident impact specialist.

Type 'impact' in the search box & it will pull up his threads on the subject of impacts.

Thanks! I sent him a message, but I haven't been very good at finding enough interest. I try to get everyone's opinion, as the evidence seems so overwhelming to me. What do you think?

It may be helpful to describe my interpretation of the topography?:
On satellite, put the upper embayment in view. Draw an imaginary line down the middle of The New Madrid Bend straight to where the rocks were found in North Slayden, Mississippi. Notice the lines in the terrain showing angle, force and direction of impact. Follow each river to the north {Wolf, Hatchie, Loosahatchie,...] down each of their valleys to view the larger waves from a shock that extends from The Tennessee River on the east, around passed The St. Francis River on the west. All the semi-circular fractures and "sand blows" point directly to this structure. The man-made lakes to the south [Enid, Sardis, Arkabutla,...] is where the land was split apart and pulled upward by the force. Later these chasms were made into lakes. Every river, lake, hill, valley and every detail in the topography surrounds and points to this same central location.

This information, along with the original accounts, newspaper articles, Herschel's observations, dendrology, and current geological surveys appears, to me, to be sufficient for further investigation. I am trying to collect all the complex geological data needed for verification [LiDAR, microscopes, spectrometer, core samples,...] If you may have any information helpful, it will be greatly appreciated...

[circumspice]

I honestly have no interest in the subject of impacts. That's why I have tried to pair you with someone whose interest & field of expertise does include impacts.

[E.P. Grondine]

Hi Kalopin -

In the past, be you could circulate your information to the Cambride Conference for expert commentary, but that service is no longer devoted to impact research.

I can assure you that the geological features you see were not caused by any recent impact. As the geology of thatr area is complex, you may want ot look through the igeological literature before deciding that they are impact related. ON the other hand, oil pools in impact fractures...

Aside from that, you might want to post the newspaper accounts from 1811 to the meteorite list for comment and possible followup field searches for any meteorites from it. Or you could email the full texts of them to me, and I would be happy to do it.

[Kalopin]

Hi Kalopin -

In the past, be you could circulate your information to the Cambride Conference for expert commentary, but that service is no longer devoted to impact research.

I can assure you that the geological features you see were not caused by any recent impact. As the geology of thatr area is complex, you may want ot look through the igeological literature before deciding that they are impact related. ON the other hand, oil pools in impact fractures...

Aside from that, you might want to post the newspaper accounts from 1811 to the meteorite list for comment and possible followup field searches for any meteorites from it. Or you could email the full texts of them to me, and I would be happy to do it.

Thanks! I hope you may find the time to give this a thorough study. There is a lot of information all pointing to this impact. There is no way an ice sheet or inland seas could form this upward topography. Current theories can not explain the geological features. I have little doubt that, further study of "The New Madrid Lines", "Upper Mid-land Drift","Upland Formation","Upland Complex" [names that have been used to describe this unusual topography] will reveal the evenly spaced rolling hills to be a shockwave pattern emanating out from point of impact.

There has been no study into this hypothesis, other than mine, although there is overwhelming evidence. Naturally occurring earthquake lights could not have been seen from the distances so many reported, some as far as Savannah, Georgia. William Herschel's observations concur. The comet must have passed in front of Earth in late November/early December 1811 and as our planet travelled through the dust tail, for more than a month, several meteors impacted, one large enough to cause this destruction. In fact, this was only a small part of the events of 1811-1812. There were many impacts, eruptions, earthquakes, strange weather patterns, even wars and plagues, just as was feared. It is my belief that comets, depending on mass, trajectory, velocity, consistancies,...can cause many disruptions, some of which have been considered only superstition.

It is important to study, understand, and get this right for many reasons. Thanks for the advice. It does seem as though there is little cooperation within the geological community concerning impact studies. I feel this to be an ultimate goal- to be able to mitigate meteor impacts...

P.S. There have been very few to offer their time to further this, Thanks!, as I have become confused of what to do. You can find more information, links to original articles, surveys, photos of some of the rocks [there are many more],... at this site: http://koolkreations.wix.com/kalopins-legacy ,"Kalopins Legacy 1811 A Comet and A Quake","wix","documents and links" and please read the article entitled "A Few Comments on 1811". I have many more links, each another piece to an intricate puzzle. If you wish to delve into quite a complex investigation?...Thanks...

[E.P. Grondine]

Hi Kalopin -

I took a brief look trying to find impact accounts you mentioned. I could not find them.
Where are they?

[Kalopin]

Hi Kalopin -

I took a brief look trying to find impact accounts you mentioned. I could not find them.
Where are they?

There are many references to the comet and its suspected influences, but not really any "impact accounts" describing an impact. You should find several at the site trying to describe what was being seen. Here is one summary: http://spiritofvincennes.org/1812/1812/steamboat.html -Bicentennial Indiana Territory 1811-1815:"After the first 1811 earthquake, it was 'reckoned' the Great Comet had fallen into The Ohio River and caused the tremblors." All these unusual events occurred only during the first major quake at approx. 2:30 a.m. on December 16, 1811.

Here is a study by C.A.Langston entitled "Site Reading Blues in the Mississippi Embayment" http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2004AGUFM.S41C..03L "Indeed the universal character of near-surface velocity structure has been inferred from detailed modeling of ground motions from an extraterrestrial source- the atmospheric acoustic shockwave from a large bolide that impacted the atmosphere..." then it says "last November in the region"?! There was no large bolide impact or atmospheric explosion in November of 2003! So, what's missing? There are many accounts such as this, that have studies and references to the design in the topography that seem to have missing pieces...

[E.P. Grondine]

Try searching on Langston and bolide

"An intensely brilliant bolide accompanied by an audible sonic boom occurred on the night of 3 November 2003 (∼2150 LT or 4 November ..." "over Arkansas", etc....

Langston used that bolide data for his "liquidity" study in the same way that dynamite explosions and seismograph readings are often used.

My final comment on your hypothesis is that as you note, there are no impact accounts.
Since the region was occupied at that time, there should have been if any had occurred.

If you ever find any impact accounts related to the Comet of 1811, let me know.

If you have an ancient deep buried impact structure, it should be showing up in oil and gas deposits.

[Minimalist]

The date given seems to match the early shocks of the New Madrid Earthquake.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1812_New_Madrid_earthquake

The four earthquakes

December 16, 1811, 0815 UTC (2:15 a.m.); (M ~7.2 – 8.1[2]) epicenter in northeast Arkansas. It caused only slight damage to man-made structures, mainly because of the sparse population in the epicentral area. The future location of Memphis, Tennessee experienced level IX shaking on the Mercalli intensity scale. A seismic seiche propagated upriver, and Little Prairie (a village that was on the site of the former Fort San Fernando, near the site of present-day Caruthersville, Missouri) was heavily damaged by soil liquefaction.[3]

December 16, 1811, 1415 UTC (8:15 a.m.); (M ~7.2–8.1) epicenter in northeast Arkansas. This shock followed the first earthquake by six hours and was similar in intensity.[2]

January 23, 1812, 1500 UTC (9 a.m.); (M ~7.0–7.8[2]) epicenter in the Missouri Bootheel. The meizoseismal area was characterized by general ground warping, ejections, fissuring, severe landslides, and caving of stream banks. Johnson and Schweig attributed this earthquake to a rupture on the New Madrid North Fault. This may have placed strain on the Reelfoot Fault.[3]

February 7, 1812, 0945 UTC (4:45 a.m.); (M ~7.4–8.0[2]) epicenter near New Madrid, Missouri. New Madrid was destroyed. At St. Louis, Missouri, many houses were severely damaged, and their chimneys were toppled. This shock was definitively attributed to the Reelfoot Fault by Johnston and Schweig. Uplift along a segment of this reverse fault created temporary waterfalls on the Mississippi at Kentucky Bend, created waves that propagated upstream, and caused the formation of Reelfoot Lake by obstructing streams in what is now Lake County, Tennessee.

[Kalopin]

Try searching on Langston and bolide

"An intensely brilliant bolide accompanied by an audible sonic boom occurred on the night of 3 November 2003 (∼2150 LT or 4 November ..." "over Arkansas", etc....

Langston used that bolide data for his "liquidity" study in the same way that dynamite explosions and seismograph readings are often used.

My final comment on your hypothesis is that as you note, there are no impact accounts.
Since the region was occupied at that time, there should have been if any had occurred.

If you ever find any impact accounts related to the Comet of 1811, let me know.

If you have an ancient deep buried impact structure, it should be showing up in oil and gas deposits.

Yes, the study was made to see if it may be a useful way to analyze near-surface site responses to determine velocity structure for earthquake hazard studies. He probably should have said "small meteor atmospheric blast" and not "large bolide" as it is more commonly believed that a bolide is in the range of 1km or larger, although there really is no specific size determination. A large bolide would be a catastrophic event. When I discussed this with Dr. Langston, he seemed to agree [I very much appreciate Dr. Langston's excellent research]. It may have just been an 'attention getter' [got mine!].

No, it is really the last line that I feel has so much importance- "However, the distinction of source-path-site becomes completely blurred if earthquakes can rupture into the sediments exciting large high frequency surface waves"! How do you interpret this? To me he is stating that the New Madrid quakes could not have formed the shockwave pattern that exists on the surface and the source-path-site does not center anywhere near New Madrid.

As far as "impact accounts", most all of the general public at the time believed the comet was totally responsible. There were only natives near the impact site. There is no information coming from anywhere near the strike-zone. There were very few settlers in Memphis. Natchez and New Madrid were too far away. It was 2:30 a.m. on a freezing December morning in 1811. There are many accounts describing meteoric and/or bright lights across the skies. A man in Louisville, Kentucky states that it was so bright he could see a needle on the floor, at 2:30 a.m.! How could someone in Savannah, Georgia see any kind of naturally occurring earthquake lights near New Madrid, Missouri? http://www.showme.net/~fkeller/quake/savannah.htm "PRECEEDED by a meteoric flash of light"!

There is so much more and it will take a lot of reading. I hope this does not deter from finding out and realizing that all these facts point only to an impact scenario. your thoughts?...

P.S. There is no where near enough, in fact very, very little geological data that has been collected anywhere near the suggested impact site. If you find some, let me know!
Here is another eye-witness account: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~monew ... aper-2.htm ,go to Saturday, December 21, 1811, "The comet has been passing to the westward since it passed its perihelion-perhaps it has touched the mountain of California, that has given a small shake to this side of the globe-..."! Reading these accounts gives better understanding to what was being witnessed. This massive comet barely missed!

P.S.S. Have you found any news reports of a "large bolide" on November 3, 2003 [or was it November 4, 2003?, as there are conflicting dates! http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2004JGRB..10912309L .Can't even get the date right?]? I have not found any news reports!

[Kalopin]

The date given seems to match the early shocks of the New Madrid Earthquake.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1812_New_Madrid_earthquake

The four earthquakes

December 16, 1811, 0815 UTC (2:15 a.m.); (M ~7.2 – 8.1[2]) epicenter in northeast Arkansas. It caused only slight damage to man-made structures, mainly because of the sparse population in the epicentral area. The future location of Memphis, Tennessee experienced level IX shaking on the Mercalli intensity scale. A seismic seiche propagated upriver, and Little Prairie (a village that was on the site of the former Fort San Fernando, near the site of present-day Caruthersville, Missouri) was heavily damaged by soil liquefaction.[3]

December 16, 1811, 1415 UTC (8:15 a.m.); (M ~7.2–8.1) epicenter in northeast Arkansas. This shock followed the first earthquake by six hours and was similar in intensity.[2]

January 23, 1812, 1500 UTC (9 a.m.); (M ~7.0–7.8[2]) epicenter in the Missouri Bootheel. The meizoseismal area was characterized by general ground warping, ejections, fissuring, severe landslides, and caving of stream banks. Johnson and Schweig attributed this earthquake to a rupture on the New Madrid North Fault. This may have placed strain on the Reelfoot Fault.[3]

February 7, 1812, 0945 UTC (4:45 a.m.); (M ~7.4–8.0[2]) epicenter near New Madrid, Missouri. New Madrid was destroyed. At St. Louis, Missouri, many houses were severely damaged, and their chimneys were toppled. This shock was definitively attributed to the Reelfoot Fault by Johnston and Schweig. Uplift along a segment of this reverse fault created temporary waterfalls on the Mississippi at Kentucky Bend, created waves that propagated upstream, and caused the formation of Reelfoot Lake by obstructing streams in what is now Lake County, Tennessee.

New Madrid was the nearest town and the impact was directed straight towards it. New Madrid was a French settlement and many thought it was worse there because there were no other reports. It is my belief that many thousands of Cherokee, Choctaw, but mainly The Chickasaw were instantly killed with no recognition. The other major quakes and many aftershocks were due to massive amounts of land and the faultline resettling...Not sure, what do you mean about the dates given [dates I gave?] matching?

P.S. I hope you do not believe any estimates to be accurate, as there was no Richter Scale, no seismologists, and only hear-say evidence, although this may work both ways, it is most definitely an impact scenario that always prevails.

[Minimalist]

Your opening sentence gave the date Dec. 16, 1811 and you seemed to be speculating about some impact event. It appears that date was merely the opening salvo in the New Madrid quake.

[Kalopin]

Your opening sentence gave the date Dec. 16, 1811 and you seemed to be speculating about some impact event. It appears that date was merely the opening salvo in the New Madrid quake.

Yes, Dec. 16, 1811 at approx. 2:30 a.m. is when I suspect the impact occurred, along with several other smaller impacts, as I believe this was a major serial impact, causing eruptions, earthquakes, floods, strange weather patterns,...all over the globe. Here is an account by Alexnder von Humboldt the Prussian explorer: http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/h/humbold ... ter14.htnl "Travels to the Equinoctial Regions of America, chapter 14", which gives better description of what I try to convey. Caracas, Venezuela also had a major earthquake in December 1811 and more than 20,000 were killed later in March 1812.

The years 1811-1812 and the effects of such a large and closely passing comet, along with massive amounts of cometary material impacting, such as 'spin ice' is what, I believe as well as many others, brought about another little ice age type scenario causing 1816-'The Year without a Summer"- http://darkmattersalot.com/2012/10/05/1 ... the-devil/ I believe another quite interesting read.

The effects of comets causing environmental downturns, wars, plagues and other strange phenomenon has been studied by several. A dendrochronologist named Mike Baillie has done some excellent work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Baillie

[Kalopin]

Try searching on Langston and bolide

"An intensely brilliant bolide accompanied by an audible sonic boom occurred on the night of 3 November 2003 (∼2150 LT or 4 November ..." "over Arkansas", etc....

Langston used that bolide data for his "liquidity" study in the same way that dynamite explosions and seismograph readings are often used.

My final comment on your hypothesis is that as you note, there are no impact accounts.
Since the region was occupied at that time, there should have been if any had occurred.

If you ever find any impact accounts related to the Comet of 1811, let me know.

If you have an ancient deep buried impact structure, it should be showing up in oil and gas deposits.

E.P.,
If there were any "impact accounts", [although I am sure many natives attempted to convey]then this would already be a part of history! Here is one attempt: http://www.showme.net/~fkeller/quake/lib/roosevelt.htm Go to the bottom of the page [but read it all!] "...'Burning Mountain' up 'The Witchita River' had been 'rent' to its base" -meaning the volcano was flattened? Oh yea, right before this statement is a great discription of the shockwave as it occurred!

I do not have an "ancient" or "deep" impact structure, it is shallow and very recent. All the rocks were found on the surface, little or no digging and, once you see them upclose, I have little doubt that you will know they are impactites!