TWO FRAGMENTS OF A CHOCTAW IMPACT TRADITION

[E.P. Grondine]

Hi Nacom -

Thanks for any help you can bring. The object here is to determine the impact rate: what hit, and when.
Hard data rules; soft data may lead to hard data, and given the extreme resource constraints on that search, its use is necessary.

I have extensive experience with Bronze Age myth materials, and European cult materials

Also, with the different European versions of Native American history and cultures.
I have no problems with NAGPRA at all. Do you?

I found Barabara Mann's comments to be insightful, though I disagree with her on the extent of the early Wyandot.

I am sorry , but I will have to place your reading recomendations on the proper use of oral histories on my reading stack.
You may view this as slothful, but then as you do not have my reading stack in front of you, your view may be biased.

[Nacon]

Hi Nacom -

Thanks for any help you can bring. The object here is to determine the impact rate: what hit, and when.
Hard data rules; soft data may lead to hard data, and given the extreme resource constraints on that search, its use is necessary.

I have extensive experience with Bronze Age myth materials, and European cult materials

Also, with the different European versions of Native American history and cultures.
I have no problems with NAGPRA at all. Do you?

I found Barabara Mann's comments to be insightful, though I disagree with her on the extent of the early Wyandot.

I am sorry , but I will have to place your reading recomendations on the proper use of oral histories on my reading stack.
You may view this as slothful, but then as you do not have my reading stack in front of you, your view may be biased.

As previously alluded to, the glacial/geomorphological history of Lake Agassiz is quite extensive and quite complex (possibly more so than you are aware). The history of Agassiz is generally (depending upon author) divided into seven phases (Early Lake, Cass, Lockhart, Moorhead, Emerson, Nipigon, and Ojibway). The basin's history has been the subject of numerous studies. A mere fraction of these will be presented below:

These first two, though slightly dated in certain regards, should provide you with an overview of the basin's history:

http://www.esci.umn.edu/sites/www.esci. ... ISTORY.pdf

https://www.msu.edu/~michal76/research/ ... assiz2.pdf

The following papers/letters/abstracts will deal with more specific aspects in a relatively chronological order:

http://www.ualberta.ca/~eec/Murtonetal2010.pdf

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2007AGUFMOS33A1001W

https://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2001NC/final ... t_5177.htm

http://www.webpages.ttu.edu/dleverin/le ... siz_QR.pdf

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 820600633X

http://www.meteo.psu.edu/holocene/publi ... eprint.pdf

http://www.atmosp.physics.utoronto.ca/p ... vg8pub.pdf

http://www.ismer.ca/IMG/pdf/Lajeunesse_ ... c_2008.pdf

http://geology.geoscienceworld.org/cont ... ogy;21/1/9

https://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2005NC/final ... _86662.htm

http://www.geotop.ca/pdf/royM/Roy_et_al_QSR_2011.pdf

http://www.eos.ubc.ca/research/glaciolo ... 004%29.pdf

http://geology.gsapubs.org/content/36/5/423.abstract

http://www.eeescience.utoledo.edu/Facul ... _QSR02.pdf

http://www.eeescience.utoledo.edu/Facul ... r_QR03.pdf

Should you wish further interpretation, will be happy to assist. In short, given the number of discharges, the documented causations of these discharges, the directionalities of these discharges, and the temporal span involved, it would be rather problematic to attribute all (or any) to impact-related origin without highly conclusive data.

Re: NAGPRA. As one who deals with such on a somewhat regular basis, can attest that the statute, as written and sometimes interpreted, is not without its flaws.

Re: Oral histories. You would appear to still be rather "stuck" in the Woodland period. While problematic in itself, this is significantly different than dealing with deep time.

.

[E.P. Grondine]

Hi nacom -

Thanks for your assistance. With any kind of luck I hope to get through those references before my return to the south.

I hope to be able to document a nice ice impact before then as well, time and money permitting.

It is not as though I am at Oxford or Cambridge and can just ask a librarian to deliver those books you mentioned to me.
For that matter, even driving into Chicago to visit the Newbury Library or Oriental Institute is very very difficult for me now.
I did not plan it that way, but that is the way it turned out.

Between the tools of impact and mt DNA mapping, I feel pretty comfortable working in deep time now, much more than I did before.
Tony DeRegnacourt told me that it would be that way.

I certainly did not plan it that way, as I hoped to be on Crete by now, but it appears that M'si Manitou had other plans for me.
Once again, thanks.

[Nacon]

Hi nacom -

Thanks for your assistance. With any kind of luck I hope to get through those references before my return to the south.

I hope to be able to document a nice ice impact before then as well, time and money permitting.

It is not as though I am at Oxford or Cambridge and can just ask a librarian to deliver those books you mentioned to me.
For that matter, even driving into Chicago to visit the Newbury Library or Oriental Institute is very very difficult for me now.
I did not plan it that way, but that is the way it turned out.

Between the tools of impact and mt DNA mapping, I feel pretty comfortable working in deep time now, much more than I did before.
Tony DeRegnacourt told me that it would be that way.

I certainly did not plan it that way, as I hoped to be on Crete by now, but it appears that M'si Manitou had other plans for me.
Once again, thanks.

E.P. - You are most welcome, though you may find that the supplied information will not add support to your position.

As to the papers by Echo-Hawk and Mason, these should be available on JSTOR. Be aware that in relatively recent history JSTOR has modified its policy and now has provisions that allow you to establish a personal account. While this account will not allow you to download papers, it will allow you to read up to three papers at a time on a revolving basis.

.

[E.P. Grondine]

Hi nacom -

Hard data rules - if Glacial Lake Aggasiz did not drain due to an ice impact ca 10,850 BCE, then I will have to look for another explanation for the Choctaw tradition.

I do not have access to JSTOR through an academic account. Generally, I trade books with other researchers.

[Nacon]

Hi nacom -

Hard data rules - if Glacial Lake Aggasiz did not drain due to an ice impact ca 10,850 BCE, then I will have to look for another explanation for the Choctaw tradition.

I do not have access to JSTOR through an academic account. Generally, I trade books with other researchers.

Hi EP,

Below are the papers by Echo-Hawk and Mason:

http://www.iupui.edu/~mstd/e316/echohawk.pdf

http://www.iupui.edu/~mstd/e316/mason.pdf

These may be a bit slow to download, depending upon your OS. Consider utilizing Adobe Reader if the download speed is inordinately slow.

As previously mentioned, JSTOR now has provisions for individual access. The following is the page that you can utilize to establish a personal account:

http://about.jstor.org/rr

This will allow you to access papers that are generally more current than the information found in books.

.

[E.P. Grondine]

Hi nacom -

Hard data rules - if Glacial Lake Aggasiz did not drain due to an ice impact ca 10,850 BCE, then I will have to look for another explanation for the Choctaw tradition.

I do not have access to JSTOR through an academic account. Generally, I trade books with other researchers.

Hi EP,

Below are the papers by Echo-Hawk and Mason:

http://www.iupui.edu/~mstd/e316/echohawk.pdf

http://www.iupui.edu/~mstd/e316/mason.pdf

These may be a bit slow to download, depending upon your OS. Consider utilizing Adobe Reader if the download speed is inordinately slow.

As previously mentioned, JSTOR now has provisions for individual access. The following is the page that you can utilize to establish a personal account:

http://about.jstor.org/rr

This will allow you to access papers that are generally more current than the information found in books.

.

Thanks Nacom - you could not have made it any easier for me.
I hope I will be able to share here a little of what I have been working on shortly.
I think you will find it interesting, at least I hope so.
In any case, it will clear up my reading stack for you.