Homer and Navigating by the Stars in Prehistory

[Samra]

Thanks George. It's a busy time but I'll look into it as soon as I can.

Sheppard

[E.P. Grondine]

Hi Shepard -

I'm not sure if this effects your precise calculations, but the Pole Star has shifted over time.

My colleague Fletcher Wilson is one of Ohio's leading naked eye astronomers, but I have not asked him about this.
We're working through Native American astronomical materials.

What other constellation systems were in use in the Eastern Mediterranean around 1000 BCE?

Hope this helps...

[Tiompan]

Hi Shepard -

I'm not sure if this effects your precise calculations, but the Pole Star has shifted over time.

It's less the shift that is noteworthy , it's relatively minimal , but the fact the the Pole star today is not the same star that was the Pole star in prehistory e.g. Today it is Polaris but prior to that it was Thuban .

[Tiompan]

Thanks George. It's a busy time but I'll look into it as soon as I can.

Sheppard

Sheppard ,
I think the the problem can best be explained by the difference between the tropical year (365.2422 days) and the Jullian calendar year (365.2500 days) , not a lot but it adds up over millenia .

George

[Samra]

Hi E.P. - Aside from Homer's descriptions I would just be guessing, but the night sky in prehistory was generally pristine and crystal clear so I'm sure many cultures around the world saw numerous other patterns in the stars they found useful to remember for a variety of purposes.

George - I was hoping you could do me a favor. About three months ago "Dating the End of the Greek Bronze Age: A Robust Radiocarbon-Based Chronology from Assiros Toumba" by Kenneth Wardle, Thomas Higham and Bernd Kromer was published. This is strong confirmation that the traditional 'historical' dates for the end of the Bronze Age are off by about 70 to 100 years having occurred earlier. This further supports the work of Walter Friedrich and his colleagues in their earlier dating of the Santorini eruption in about 1613 BC ("Santorini Eruption Dated to 1627 to 1600 B.C.", 2006) as opposed to the conventional date range used for decades by the archaeologists.

The reason this is important for my upcoming publication is that we would like to create navigationally relevant monthly snapshots of the constellations mentioned by Homer in the night sky just after sunset for a year that precedes the destruction of the Mycenaean palaces by some decades (say about 50 years). So we may be looking at 1350 BC as opposed to our assumed 1325 BC. While it's not a logical necessity to pick monthly dates that coincide with the solstices and equinoxes I think it would be a nice touch and helpful to the readers.

Our current thinking is that 1350 BC would be the safer and more appropriate year for us to use. With this in mind would your program (Starry Night Pro?) be able to provide us with accurate dates for the four solstices and equinoxes for 1350 BC that we could make available to our colleagues for their confirmation? You seem to have a good handle on this and we would appreciate any help you can provide.

Much Thanks,
Sheppard

[Tiompan]

Sheppard ,
Hope this helps .I put in a couple of mentions of the Pleiades sightings too.
The equinox and solstcies were important for the Polynesian star compasses along with the cardinals too , so why not Med/Aegean seafarers ?

Winter Solstice sun set 1st January at 240 degrees from observer
Winter Solstice sun rise I st January at 119 :: :: ::
Spring Equinox sun rise 3rd April at 90 :: :: ::
Spring Equinox set 3rd April 270 at 270 :: :: ::
Summer Solstice Sun Set 5 th July at 300 :: :: ::
Summer Solstice sun rise 5th July at 60 :: :: ::
Autumn equinox sun rise 6th September 90 :: :: ::
Autumn equinox sun set 6th September 269 :: :: ::

Winter solstice Pleiades at 150 degrees from observer one hour after sun set .
Spring Equinox Pleiades on horizon at 280 degrees , one hour after sun set .
Pleiades on horizon at 4.25 hours before sun rise on summer solstice .
Pleiades on horizon approx 15 minutes after sun set on Autumn equinox at 79 degrees from observer .


George

[Samra]

Completely brilliant, George!
Thank you.

Sheppard

[Tiompan]

Sheppard ,

I have just noticed that the month for the Autumn Equinox rise and set should be October not September , apologies .

I should also have mentioned that I sited the observer/boat approx midway between Crete and Sicily , Lat 35 .36 , Long 19.17 . It makes no difference for the dates but does for the bearings .

George

[Samra]

Thanks for the correction, George.

Just for confirmation I have the following for the year 1350 BC in the mid-Mediterranean:

Winter Solstice - 1st January
Spring Equinox - 3rd April
Summer Solstice - 5th July
Autumn Equinox - 6th October

Really appreciate this!
Sheppard

[Tiompan]

Thanks for the correction, George.

Just for confirmation I have the following for the year 1350 BC in the mid-Mediterranean:

Winter Solstice - 1st January
Spring Equinox - 3rd April
Summer Solstice - 5th July
Autumn Equinox - 6th October

Really appreciate this!
Sheppard

Tha's right Sheppard .

I'll send a spreadsheet to your gmail address with the fuller detail and including data on Pleiades and Bootes /Arcturus for the same dates .

George

[E.P. Grondine]

Hi Shepard -

You need to find the earliest mention in contemporary documents of the constellations used by "Homer".

Were they in use in Ionia?

Or are they Dorian?

[E.P. Grondine]

Very co-incidentally, this nice picture just showed up today:

http://dailygrail.com/Hidden-History/20 ... -Expertise

[Tiompan]

You need to find the earliest mention in contemporary documents of the constellations used by "Homer".

Were they in use in Ionia?

Or are they Dorian?

We already have a fair understanding of the named constellations in the area for the period , "gaps " in the night sky where there are no constellations or stars are also important markers for some cultures .
What is more important for an understanding of the use of stars , not just constellations , for navigation is that at latitudes within approx 20 degrees of the equator the stars set and rise at much the same bearing .This is what is critical for navigation.

[kbs2244]

And, of couse, the Greeks were not afraid to beg, borrow, or steal from The Orientals.