Andrew Collins on Gobekli Tepe sister site

[Tiompan]

Anyone who purports to have a knowledge of comets then suggests that an alignmnet to a comet which was only discovered in 1900 and would have been invisible to the naked eye in prehistory is nuts . More to the point , to support the views of the nutty alt crowd like Collins is nuts by association . You now admit that you can't " do " alignments , then why still attempt to so ? that's pretty nutty , it only gets you stuck ever deeper in the BS .
You asked for a list , You got one . Then you claimed one didn't exist , then later quoted some problems but still evaded answering the problems .
Here is a list of the problems specifically about the subject of the thread i.e. KT and the nonsense propogated by Collins and Hale about Cygnus .There are plenty more from Collins or yourself ,but that would take forever ever to list and longer to be addressed .

1) there are three apparent alignments / “avenues” that have their orientation on to the knoll . Accepting the accuracy of the measurement and their presence , their azimuths are 15º, 115º and 140º ,none of which are oriented towards Deneb or Cygnus and are apparently to , or less likely ,away from the knoll .
2) What we have as seen from the knoll i.e. the backsight is a flat horizon to the north towards Keçili North Tepe .This is the foresight , except it is nothing like a foresight ,it’s a featureless flat summit a kilometre away but only 20 m higher than the knoll .The effect is seen in fig 12 . That is not an example of a foresight , it’s a featureless horizon. An example of a foresight could be a standing stone ,like the Heel Stone , or even a prominent notch in a hillside ,something that provides a element of accuracy when lined up from the backsight , not a flat hillside occupying over 20 degrees of the horizon .It’s potentially worse than that , the knoll is merely the high point ,and not where the pillars are and it looks likely that Keçili North Tepe is unsighted from the majority of the pillars/avenues .
3) when we look at what actually happens with the Deneb in the period we discover that half the year Deneb would not be seen to set over the hill at all as it would take place in daylight .
4) The altitude of 2 degrees for the extinction height means that when in view it is still over half an hour before setting on the actual horizon and has also moved over four degrees towards the centre of the “hill” (actually a flat horizon ).
In addition to that we have the problems with GT also ignored.
5) There are other holed stones at Gobekli , due to these holes being low lying they are hardly likely to be useful for observation ,they have been conveniently ignored .
6)Why should we even consider the hole as being used for observation ?

You keep waffling about other stuff attempting to evade the issue . e.g. Where did "lie" about an excavation report . The lie is you making up stuff like that .
Look at the start of this thread , read what it is about ,answer the problems about that , don't attempt to introduce to bring in other stuff as a side issue , you only get that wriong too .
Yes data wins in the end ,I have provided plenty to show that Collins is wrong and you too . Why don't you provide a single quote ? ,rather than make stuff up , then refute that . Breath will not be held .

[E.P. Grondine]

Denial is not just a river in Egypt.
I seem to have touched a nerve.

Anyone who purports to have a knowledge of comets then suggests that an alignmnet to a comet which was only discovered in 1900 and would have been invisible to the naked eye in prehistory is nuts.

Anyone who insists that comets do not evolve over time is a DOLT.

More to the point , to support the views of the nutty alt crowd like Collins is nuts by association.

As Collins has stated his differences with the "nutty alt crowd", he would probably resent you including him with them.

I myself belong to the nutty comet impact crowd, the one founded by Clube and Napier.

You now admit that you can't " do " alignments , then why still attempt to so ? that's pretty nutty , it only gets you stuck ever deeper in the BS .

I've had a stroke, George, and lost several brain functions.
For example, most of my foreign languages went.
Most of my short stack of to do items went.
The only reason I remember the Native American materials is
because they were what I was working on when my stroke occurred.
My abilities to type and copy read were severely impaired.
My abilities to use interview techniques went.

I can not program computers any more,
and now have problems even installing softwware and using it.

And specifically, in this case, my abilities to do higher order computations.
But I still remember what is involved.
When the results for 21P are in...

You asked for a list , You got one.

And then you offered another list, and I asked for it.

Then you claimed one didn't exist, then later quoted some problems but still evaded answering the problems .

George, I have not read Collins later books yet to see if your or Clines' list is actually what Collins said, or they are what either of you wish he said.

In either case, I'm not Colins, and am not responsible for his work.

I have already stated more than a few of my differences with Collins.

That said, Collins' "The Ashes of Angels" was a good read and useful.

Here is a list of the problems specifically about the subject of the thread i.e. KT and the nonsense propogated by Collins and Hale about Cygnus .There are plenty more from Collins or yourself, but that would take forever ever to list and longer to be addressed.

Thanks for this list.
Now if you want to give me a list of everything that you view as wrong in "Man and Impact in the Americas" I will be happy to respond. Be sure and use a copy with the "major corrections sheet" pasted inside its front cover.

1) there are three apparent alignments / “avenues” that have their orientation on to the knoll. Accepting the accuracy of the measurement and their presence , their azimuths are 15º, 115º and 140º ,none of which are oriented towards Deneb or Cygnus and are apparently to , or less likely, away from the knoll .

We plan to use the "star holes" and column pairs noted by Schmidt.
Speaking of whom, were the hell is your list of his papers on GT available via the internet?
Where the hell is you list of the other "respectable" papers on the major PPN sites.

2) What we have as seen from the knoll i.e. the backsight is a flat horizon to the north towards Keçili North Tepe. This is the foresight , except it is nothing like a foresight ,it’s a featureless flat summit a kilometre away but only 20 m higher than the knoll .The effect is seen in fig 12 [OF WHAT?] . That is not an example of a foresight , it’s a featureless horizon. An example of a foresight could be a standing stone, like the Heel Stone , or even a prominent notch in a hillside, something that provides a element of accuracy when lined up from the backsight , not a flat hillside occupying over 20 degrees of the horizon .It’s potentially worse than that, the knoll is merely the high point ,and not where the pillars are and it looks likely that Keçili North Tepe is unsighted from the majority of the pillars/avenues .

George, as you pointed out earlier, people sometimes project alignments onto ancient structures.

On of the fads in archaeo-astronomy is picking out items on the horizon, and claiming alignments with them.

They do this with no knowledge of any ancient system of constellations that may have been used.

3) when we look at what actually happens with the Deneb in the period we discover that half the year Deneb would not be seen to set over the hill at all as it would take place in daylight .
4) The altitude of 2 degrees for the extinction height means that when in view it is still over half an hour before setting on the actual horizon and has also moved over four degrees towards the centre of the “hill” (actually a flat horizon ).
In addition to that, we have the problems with GT also ignored.
5) There are other holed stones at Gobekli , due to these holes being low lying they are hardly likely to be useful for observation, they have been conveniently ignored .
6)Why should we even consider the hole as being used for observation ?

George, those holed stones represent a considerable investment of resources.
What was their purpose?
You insistence that their find locations were their use locations, in contradiction to normal archaelogical working practices,
is the kind of mistake I expect from DOLTS.

More generally,
WHAT NO ONE WHO SELF-PROCLAIMS THEMSELVES "ARCHAEO ASTRONOMERS" CAN EXPLAIN IS WHY ANCIENT CULTURES INVESTED SO MUCH EFFORT IN BOTH CONSTRUCTING STRUCTURES AND IN MAINTAINING A CLASS OF ASTRONOMERS.

I am tending to view this as another instance of projection as well.

You keep waffling about other stuff attempting to evade the issue . e.g. Where did "lie" about an excavation report. The lie is you making up stuff like that .

Look at the start of this thread , read what it is about, answer the problems about that , don't attempt to introduce to bring in other stuff as a side issue , you only get that wrong too .

George, Collins just posted a nice report on his visit to the site, and his understanding of it.

One thing you really have problems with is Collins speculation on an advanced PPN population group.

The other items you have problems with is the distribution of X mt DNA,
and the existence of Native Americans of large stature.

Yes data wins in the end ,I have provided plenty to show that Collins is wrong and you too.

I will not answer for anything Collins has written.
I will try to answer any problems you have with "Man and Impact in the Americas".

Why don't you provide a single quote ? ,rather than make stuff up , then refute that . Breath will not be held .

If you're going to continue to write that I am a "nut",
I will demonstrate that you are a DOLT.

[Tiompan]

Breath wasn't held , just as well .

You were given a list of the problems with the nutty Collins thinking in relation to the subject of this thread .You failed to address them . After multiple evasions and attempts at changing the subject which also proved to be wrong , you still failed to address then problems . Even when some were numbered you failed to address them . Neither you nor Collins are in a position to state differences with the nutty alt crowd if what you spout is equally nutty .
The dolts are those who calim that invisible comets had alignments built towards them at KT ,when the comet was invisible to the builders and there are no examples of alignments to comets in any prehistoric building , and no evidence of any apart from the in the fevered imagination of dolts who can't "do " alignments .
You admit you can't "do" alignments , even when you mention comets ,which you supposedly know about you get it wrong , do us all a favour and stop embarrassing yourself by wasting our time by waffling on about subjects you just don't understand .

[E.P. Grondine]

Breath wasn't held , just as well .

You were given a list of the problems with the nutty Collins thinking in relation to the subject of this thread .You failed to address them . After multiple evasions and attempts at changing the subject which also proved to be wrong , you still failed to address then problems . Even when some were numbered you failed to address them .

George, you have your problems with Collins hypotheses, and I have mine.
When I've read Collins new books, I'll let you known about the problems that I have with them.
One important point that you seem to be unable to grasp is that
having problems with a work does not mean that it is useless.

For that matter, I had serious problems with the use of archaeology in Clube and Napier's original books, in particular with their researcher's attempt to re-write Egyptian chronology. This led to my own re-examination of the hazard presented by asteroid and comet impact.

Neither you nor Collins are in a position to state differences with the nutty alt crowd if what you spout is equally nutty .

Well since I can state the diferences,
you are a DOLT.

First off, there was no single master race.
Second, there were no seven teachers of wisdom.
Third, the Andaste were not "Nephilim", they were ass-holes,
and remembered as such by the keepers of the traditional histories.

Fourth, Joseph Smith's statements about Native Americans were among his "mistakes",
as were his statements about the ancient Egyptians.

Fifth, the different peoples' traditional histories were not "stories made up by by a bunch of stoned Indans sitting around a campfire"

Sixth, there was not just one celestial catastrophe in ancient times,
there were many, affecting different peoples at different locations,
and at different times.

Seven, no "Nemesis" gravitational injector of asteroids existed or exists.
For Morrison's nonsense, op cit.

Eight, no "Niburu" either. For Sitchins nonsense, go to the sitchiniswrong website.

The dolts are those who calim that invisible comets had alignments built towards them at KT, when the comet was invisible to the builders and there are no examples of alignments to comets in any prehistoric building , and no evidence of any apart from the in the fevered imagination of dolts who can't "do " alignments.

I do love it when a person is so ignorant that they continue to repeat their mistakes when they are pointed out to them.

You admit you can't "do" alignments, even when you mention comets, which you supposedly know about you get it wrong , do us all a favour and stop embarrassing yourself by wasting our time by waffling on about subjects you just don't understand.

Fortunately, except when they permutate due to the graviational effects of other bodies, or when they are affected by splits and out-gassing jets, comet paths do not vary in relation to the star field.

Thus one can arrive at a first approximation quite simply.

No one has ever needed immense structures nor to support a class of detailed observors to simply determine directions or the time of year. Peoples generally used astronomies sufficient for their needs.

A lot of modern astronomers mistake the modern support shown for astronomy due to its usefulness in nuclear physics as something which existed in the past.

There is also the problem of the ancient magical practices in relation to the sky of different peoples.

Unfortunately, 21 P's visible radiant from Earth lay close to celestial north, and this has led to some confusion among those not familiar with modern cometary astronomy.

The effects of this on ancient peoples must have been profound.
Hence their intense "magic" practices, a phenomena seen globally.

[Tiompan]

And still you fail to respond to respond to any of the problems and continue to introduce stuff that I have not commented on and that is not relevant to the subject of this thread i.e. The nonsense written by Collins about the "Sister site of Gobekli Tepe " .
Listing other problems related to Collins is old hat ,we all know that and as I have said a few times in this thread , it would take forever to go over all the nonsense . Simply because you also may appreciate some of the other problems didn't stop you buying the Cygnus /Deneb / KT rubbish that you have studiously failed to provide any evidence /data or even an attempt at supporting . Your mistakes have been pointed out ,quotes and then refutations , you habve failed to do anything similar despite constant requests . You were asked top provide an example of alignment , like the one you dreamt up at KT , towards a comet in prehistory , instead you waffled and failed to do so .

"21 P's visible radiant from Earth lay close to celestial north, and this has led to some confusion among those not familiar with modern cometary astronomy. "
Is another example of rubbish .
The confusion and ignorance is all your own , 21 P was first observed in the southern sky by both Giacobini and Zinner ,it is not observed in the northern sky , observers tend to stick to Pegasus in the south/south west . You were told that the more you say the more likley you are to betray your ignorance . The little knowledge that got you into trouble ,again, was the Draconids which are spawned by 21 P but seen in the north .
You keep spoutiong on about what you don't know about , I'm happy to point out the errors ,includiong the quotes and data , but others just get tired of the waste of space and time .

[E.P. Grondine]

You keep on repeating both moderm discovery information and the current state of 21P.

You can look up the Dracronid Meteors, George.
Anyone and Everyone can.
The data is independent of the observer, which is why science has its power.
http://earthsky.org/astronomy-essential ... nid-meteor
http://www.space.com/23133-draconid-met ... night.html

This duplicability of data independent of the observor is why science has its power.
For example , you repeatedly calling me a nut has no effect on either Giacobini Zinner nor the Draconids.

And CRAP is still CRAP, no matter hows many times it is repeated,
nor by who, and that includes you, DOLT.

As another example, my assertion that you are a DOLT,
can be demonstrated by the data you provided by your repeated and insistent posts here.
which demonstrated both your rather complete ignorance of modern cometary astronomy,
and your very limited intellect.

I am having problems with DNS to the search engines on the other computer here.
Perhaps someone else besides yourself is keeping track of when I post here, and using that opportunity to try a hack.

I've set a scan going on the other machine.
If that does not fix the problem, then there are other methods.

[Tiompan]

Yes science has power just like the data , sadly your data is often demonstrably wrong .
You not only suggest a comet that was invisible to people in prehistory had an alignment built twowards it ,which is nuts on more than one level ,but you also got the direction of the invisible comet wrong too .
I know about the the Draconids ,they are what you confused with the comet , they are seen in the north , not the south which is the direction that comet would be seen if you or people in prehsitory had the necessary equipment .

Mmmmmm ,having trouble with a search engine ,there was also the earlier problem about being tired .
Yes crap is crap , the problem is showing why it is crap , that is what I continually do to your comments ,and you failt to do to mine .
Check the data provided when you get a chance and don't attempt to any more waffling before doing so , you will only get into a bigger mess than you are already in .

[E.P. Grondine]

Hi George -

Now DNS to the search services are out on this machine as well.

Oh well. From the very start of the internet I assumed that anything I placed on my home machine would be visible,
and that any message I sent would be read.

Thus I store many materials off machine,
use some e-mail accounts only on guest machines from which I do nothing else,
and use an air gap machine for essential work.

I observe that if you give a DOLT enough rope,
he will tie himself up;
if you are really lucky,
he will hang himself.

That said, why you think that the Draconids were not visible in the ancient night sky,
and why you think that ancient astronomers would not be interested in them is beyond my poor stupid understanding.
Perhaps you'd care to further educate us all about this...

[Tiompan]

One of the lesser reasons that highlight how you are worse than a dolt is contained in this short simple sentence "“If you bothers to notice, the alignments were to Comet Giacobini Zimmer. “ .You thought you knew about comets but if we look at that short sentence ,it’s garbage . 1) you get the name wrong ,it’s Zinner not Zimmer . 2) The putative alignments are to the North , and that is not where the comet can be observed . 3) The comet was only discovered in 1900 and cannot be seen with the naked eye, so not only was the “alignment “in the wrong direction it wouldn’t have been seen . 4) You don’t get “alignments “ to comets in prehistoric buildings . 5) You confused a comet with meteors , the Draconids are spawned from the comet but are seen in the north not the south . That is an example of data refuting a genuine quote , something you attempt to do but fail to provide the data or the quote .

Now we get this

That said, why you think that the Draconids were not visible in the ancient night sky,
and why you think that ancient astronomers would not be interested in them is beyond my poor stupid understanding.
Perhaps you'd care to further educate us all about this...

You don't only know nothing about the subject and continually make mistakes , you can't read or understand the simplest of sentences , no wonder you get it all wrong .
Look at my last post ,this is what I said about the Draconids "I know about the the Draconids ,they are what you confused with the comet , they are seen in the north , " did you actaully fail to notice the "seen " which means something entirley different to "not visible " but clearly not to you .
Note that once again you fail to provide a quote . Where did I say that the Draconids were not visible in the ancient sky ?, like all the other nonsense you just made that up .
Look at what has been written . Of course the Draconids were visible in the ancient sky ,it was the comet that was not visible in the ancient sky . That is the same comet you confuse with the Draconids .

You simply get worse . Do yourself a favour and don't embarrass yourself anymore .

[E.P. Grondine]

My confusions are largely the product of both your stupidity and imagination, George.
A more sophisticated version of Tom Hood (kalopin).

Why you very insistently continue to insist that 21P (there, that avoids any typos) and the Draconids appeared the same in the ancient sky as it is currently is beyond me.

Like the saying goes, you can lead a horses ass to knowledge, but you can't make him think.

Given that I know the difference between comets and meteors, you will have to excuse me if I ignore any of your claims about what Collins wrote, as based on my personal experience what Collins actually wrote is likely to be different than what he actually wrote.

And given your general rudeness and insistence that I agree with you, don't expect me to share any of my views on Collins more recent books, and I doubt if I'll let you or anyone else know if I agree with you even if I do.

I see there are two bots that work here, so changing my user profile info controlling online appearance is not likely to do any good.

The McAfee scan came up clean, but the DNS to the search services is still out.
Google, Bing, Yahoo, etc...

[Tiompan]

Yet again another evasion of the problems , making up stuff and conveniently avoiding the use of quotes .
Are you incapable of understanding the simplest of text .
e.g. "Why you very insistently continue to insist that 21P (there, that avoids any typos) and the Draconids appeared the same in the ancient sky as it is currently is beyond me."
It appears a lot is beyond you . First ,why didn't you provide a quote that highlights where I said anything like that ? Second , if you had read and understood my last post you would have seen this " 2) The putative alignments are to the North , and that is not where the comet can be observed . " That suggests that the comet was not observed in the north (another of your errors , you thought it was ) .Then "the Draconids are spawned from the comet but are seen in the north not the south . " Get that ? The Draconids are seen in the north not in the south where the comert is observed . I shouldn't have to even point out any of this to anyone who knows the basics .

"Given that I know the difference between comets and meteors,". Really ? ,that is not apparent in comments like " the alignments were to Comet Giacobini Zimmer. “ ,the putative "alignments " were to the north , the direction where the Draconids were to be observed but that is not where the comet was to be observed .

The only thing that you said that makes any sense is "based on my personal experience what Collins actually wrote is likely to be different than what he actually wrote. " if only because it explains why you manage to come up with such a volume of BS .

I don't insist that you agree with me , given the level of your cognitive dissonace , it's probably better that you don't , I'm simply pointing out where you are are wrong and providing quotes and data as evidence .
The more you attempt to wriggle out of the errors the worse it gets .

[E.P. Grondine]

Hi George - I'll get back to you shortly.

Apparently, I am undergoing a DDoS and Trojan attack by a bunch of hackers calling themselves
the Shadow Search Foundation, in particular one of them named Chargen.

This altruistic bunch claims:

"The scannings will continue until the Internet improves
Posted on March 28, 2014 | Category :DDoS, Shadowserver | Comments Off on The scannings will continue until the Internet improves
Introduction

"The news and our networks have been full of articles and packets related to the different UDP amplification attacks that have been ongoing. We and several other researchers have been looking at this problem for a while and while there are not any easy solutions we can at least make network owners more aware of the issues that we can see on their networks from the outside. This has led to some interesting results, most of which are not pleasant."

Well, from my point of view the internet would improve if Chargen simply disappeared from the face of the Earth. Though I would ask him very direct questions about his colleagues identities before that.

I suspect that the scannings would stop shortly afterwards.

The only important point here from my point of view is that
I did not volunteer to have my time wasted by them.

For physical trace purposes:
104.28(5? - pen skips)5.69.6
5.144.161.163
00:11:2f:6d:6a:a6
64.29.151.221
207.150.0.24
and
74.82.47.49

They appear to rotate through their members' machines.
Kind of reminds me of SCHWA.

George, I'll get back to you shortly.
You deserve a break today...

[E.P. Grondine]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadowserver

The problems here are that:
1 I did not volunteer
2) no one is paying me

Now how I ended up with these bits is one of life's questions
I doubt that their targeting of me was as random as they claim

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/5407478.stm

"We never take a bot net down," he says. "We're strictly passive observers. Though we will alert a net service provider, hosting company or let law enforcement know if there is something of particular interest to them."

He adds: ""We gather information, all we can learn about botnets, how malware spreads and the different techniques that botnet operators use to avoid detection."

Tracking botnet activity is a huge task for Shadowserver members. Mr Di Mino estimates that, at any one time, upwards of 15,000 botnets are working. In total, it is thought, they have about one million machines under their control.

Botnets have grown because cyber criminals have discovered how useful they can be when they want to conceal what they do.

Chinese net users, AFP/Getty
China is becoming a popular spot for bots
The machines in a botnet can be used as an attack platform to bump websites offline unless a ransom is paid. They can be used to send spam, to seed viruses, or as dead drops for information stolen by keyloggers.

Typically, a botnet owner will rent out their net to anyone that wants to use it. Going rates depend on what they plan to do with them. Many botnet herders make more than $5000 per month.

"We are seeing more revenue driven botnet operations," says Mr Di Mino, "because there's real money to be made in it."

For example botnet herder Jeanson James Ancheta made more than $100,000 by renting out access to the 40,000 machines he had control over. Arrested in November 2005 he was sentenced to 57 months in jail in May 2006."

Only 57 months in jail.

"He says: "They may change in complexity, sophistication and vehicles of attack," he says, "but the problem will never go away until law enforcement gets more involved to apprehend and fully prosecute the botherders and those supporting them."

Well, there is another method of making the problem go away.

[E.P. Grondine]

For those of you playing along at home:

http://star.arm.ac.uk/~aac/zetataur.html

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 339400127D

https://books.google.com/books?id=QpajM ... er&f=false

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2012/pdf/1298.pdf

[E.P. Grondine]

Hi DOLT -

If I could do that kind of work,
I'd probably be doing it for some government interested in protecting their satellites from comet debris streams.

As it is, I depend on others for that.
After I have figured out what the most likely alignments are,
I'll start to distribute that information.

Then you can go and call some professional "nuts", or anything else you want,
DOLT.