More seafaring hominids

[circumspice]

It's also probably not the kind of thing that everyone in a community decided to do at the same time. Plus there is the intermediate step of herding. It's not too much of a step from moving around from pasture to pasture as the seasons change to developing a sense of attachment for the land. Eventually the shepherds would move the animals and other people settled down to a cozy spot near a water source and built huts. Tending to certain useful plants in the area seems a logical progession.

Animal domestication almost certainly preceded agriculture. It probably started with canines & then continued with larger meat animals. Herding is compatible with a nomadic lifestyle. I suppose that as they made their seasonal rounds through grazing lands they may have discovered that some desirable food plants grew close to where they set up seasonal camps. It doesn't seem a big leap in logic that they may have timed their seasonal journeys to coincide with the projected harvest or gathering times of certain food plants, along with the natural migrations of preferred food animals such as birds & fish. They would always have settled, at least temporarily, near a stable source of clean water. It's not exactly rocket science. A place that offered clean water, food plants & food animals would have been a preferred location. They might have even developed traditional tribal territories, much like other apex predators.

[E.P. Grondine]

Re: Qadna culture -

I have a microlith made out of Libyan Desert Glass which I acquired over 12 years ago.
It came from the last legal plane load out of Egypt.
They now tell me some of these were faked,
but hydration should show the fakes from the real ones.

It is interesting to watch you struggle with the name for the early homonid ancestor emigrating out of Africa.
I had a lot of shit thrown at me for using Homo Heidelbergensis
at the time I wrote "Man and Impact in the Americas",
despite careful discussion in the footnotes.
Now we have that new ancestor from Siberia.

Whatever its name, an early robust erectus emigrated out of Africa very early on,
and led to Homo Sapiens:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCD9u7XGC8w&t=66s
I have mentioned to you here before
that the landscape was very different then,
and that I expect that further early hominid fossils will be found in India and Saudi Arabia.

Moving on to plant domestication,
the Americas provide interesting information
which may be compared with that from Eurasia.

It appears that Speciation comes before Planting and then Breeding.
We know from Poverty Point of a couple of early attempts at finding domesticates .
Also, we have the preparation of grazing sites for game animals.
At Gobekli Tepe, one of the most important domesticates appears to have been chickpeas,
major protein source for the entire region, as seen in today's Falafels.

Today's major domesticates were developed by river irrigation civilizations in the mountain valleys of the Andes.

But this ignores the nuts and fruit trees which were a very important food source for man in Eastern North America.
The remainders of nut groves and fruit orchards are very useful as site indicators to this day.
This is not well studied here, and the same holds for Eurasia.
This research bias reflects modern food usage and the search for the genetics of those plants.

We have fairly detailed Spanish reports of semi-domesticated deer from the Carolinas,
which I passed on in "Man and Impact in the Americas".
spice, your comment about dogs has particular relevance to Meso-American cultures.

Boat building technologies were also set out in the same book.
Besides the dominant dug out technologies,
Pacific Ocean coastal watercraft technologies were briefly reviewed there as well,
drawing upon Thor Hyerdahl's work on these.

One Spanish drawing of an Incan catamaran may be seen at 3:45 here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbM4vHcRyz0&t=23s

In closing off these notes,
It is interesting that the Inca himself set out on a voyage to the western Pacific
following on the Great Wall of Water impact mega-tsunami,
a voyage most likely undertaken to find out what had happened
to regular visitors who no longer showed up.

[Simon21]

I have a microlith made out of Libyan Desert Glass which I acquired over 12 years ago.
It came from the last legal plane load out of Egypt.
They now tell me some of these were faked,
but hydration should show the fakes from the real ones.

Common sense is also a help. I have the holy grail if you want it. Just send $300,000 and it's yours.

Incidently I wouldn't try selling your ancient (12 years) piece of Libyan desert glass, there must be fraud laws even in Ohio.

It is interesting to watch you struggle with the name for the early homonid ancestor emigrating out of Africa.
I had a lot of shit thrown at me for using Homo Heidelbergensis
at the time I wrote "Man and Impact in the Americas",
despite careful discussion in the footnotes.
Now we have that new ancestor from Siberia.

It is amazing how little impact your witterings have.

Moving on to plant domestication,
the Americas provide interesting information
which may be compared with that from Eurasia.

No one could argue with this truism.

It appears that Speciation comes before Planting and then Breeding.
We know from Poverty Point of a couple of early attempts at finding domesticates .
Also, we have the preparation of grazing sites for game animals.
At Gobekli Tepe, one of the most important domesticates appears to have been chickpeas,
major protein source for the entire region, as seen in today's Falafels.

Gibberish and misuse of information, as usual. Pretended expertise. In reality the information from GT is much exagerated and disputed.

Today's major domesticates were developed by river irrigation civilizations in the mountain valleys of the Andes.

Only as pity then that the Andean civilisations did not have any domestic animals apart from Llamas and Alpacas Haven't heard of ancient Andean sheep, cattle andf horses. Queer the Conquistadores did not mention them.

Are we sure we do not mean Talahasee Ohio?

We have fairly detailed Spanish reports of semi-domesticated deer from the Carolinas,
which I passed on in "Man and Impact in the Americas".
spice, your comment about dogs has particular relevance to Meso-American cultures.

Really and how do you "semi-domesticate Deer"? Do we mean Reindeer? How did the Sami people get to the Carolinas? Perhaps this is yet another of your papers "The Finnish settlements in pre columbian America."

Boat building technologies were also set out in the same book.
Besides the dominant dug out technologies,
Pacific Ocean coastal watercraft technologies were briefly reviewed there as well,
drawing upon Thor Hyerdahl's work on these.

Which is another reason not to bother reading it. Stick to Erik Von Daniken, he is a lot more credible.

In closing off these notes,
It is interesting that the Inca himself set out on a voyage to the western Pacific
following on the Great Wall of Water impact mega-tsunami,
a voyage most likely undertaken to find out what had happened
to regular visitors who no longer showed up.

Yes he took an owl and a pussycat with him I beleive. When did he do this? After chatting to the little green men?

Great Wall of Water impact mega-tsunami,

this is in fact a ride at Waterworld. $15 a go, it's not literate but it is a bargain.

[Simon21]

It's also probably not the kind of thing that everyone in a community decided to do at the same time. Plus there is the intermediate step of herding. It's not too much of a step from moving around from pasture to pasture as the seasons change to developing a sense of attachment for the land. Eventually the shepherds would move the animals and other people settled down to a cozy spot near a water source and built huts. Tending to certain useful plants in the area seems a logical progession.

Animal domestication almost certainly preceded agriculture. It probably started with canines & then continued with larger meat animals. Herding is compatible with a nomadic lifestyle. I suppose that as they made their seasonal rounds through grazing lands they may have discovered that some desirable food plants grew close to where they set up seasonal camps. It doesn't seem a big leap in logic that they may have timed their seasonal journeys to coincide with the projected harvest or gathering times of certain food plants, along with the natural migrations of preferred food animals such as birds & fish. They would always have settled, at least temporarily, near a stable source of clean water. It's not exactly rocket science. A place that offered clean water, food plants & food animals would have been a preferred location. They might have even developed traditional tribal territories, much like other apex predators.

That depends on your definitiion of agriculture. And what makes sense to us isn't always the case in reality. For one thing some sites probably had a ritualistic and holy significance - this could have mattered just as much as having resources. We should not assume our distant ancestors were always guided by straight material considerations. As many anthropologists have observed perfectly acceptable foods are sometimes eschewed by indigenous people for a variety of reasons.

[E.P. Grondine]

Well simon, you extend your ignorant ravings to yet another continent.

In point of fact,
the ancient ocean watercraft of the Inca and their use are known by many of their modern descendants.

[Simon21]

Well simon, you extend your ignorant ravings to yet another continent.

In point of fact,
the ancient ocean watercraft of the Inca and their use are known by many of their modern descendants.

In point of fact there is no record of the Inca making ocean voyages on spec and no one with a whole brain would make such an idiotic claim.

The Inca geneerally only left his capital for religious reasons and for war.

Perhaps you think he was in the habit of booking the odd Pacific cruise?

And as for your use of the word "impact" to describe almost every event - it just shows you illiteracy.

[circumspice]

Wow! Michelle found a great article on ancient seafaring. This was a very satisfying read!

Posting the link for convenience:


https://popular-archaeology.com/article ... the-timor/

[kbs2244]

This group is devoted to the idea of very early, long range, open water, travel.
World wide.
This is their home page

http://www.ifrao.com/the-first-mariners-project/

[circumspice]

What's even more interesting is that they use only regional & period appropriate tools & materials to build their watercraft & they take only period & regional foods on their voyages. That's the only real way to truly test hypothese. Using anything that wasn't available for the period would skew the results. It seems like they're testing the various hypothese in a clinical manner that would probably lend them credibility.