Archaeologica.org

Yamemaru wrote:im an achaelogist....i studied everything. Thats a pyramid if thats not a pyramid in bruce lee.

bruce lemming

i know you won't listen but if oz says everyones going to the beach for the day....

RK Awl-O'Gist wrote:

stellarchaser wrote: Yes, he is not archeologist, but at the very beginning of the whole affair, before excavations began, Osmanagish sent a letter to Bosnian archeologists asking them to come and help with their expertise. Actually he sent that letter twice, and nobody responded.

stellarchaser wrote: Why some archeologists from USA for example don't go there and work on Visocica?

I've already explained TWICE why archaeologists can't just drop everything and start digging on someone else's whim. Is there any chance of actually seeing some common sense in this thread?

It is unbelievable! First people here are claiming that someone independant has to overview excavations (which is reasonable) and then turned out that nobody wants to do that. What a hypocricy...C'mon people, decide what you want to do. If no one wants to go there, then don't criticize excavations on Visocica...now it sounds just like nothing but jealousy...

Beagle wrote:Hello RK. I know that you won't see this until tomorrow (unless you're a real night owl), but I have a question.

You are an archaeologist. I accept everything you say regarding the difficulties in beginning or joining a new project.

Does the same thing hold true for an archaeologist who is employed by the government? (we've both heard some pretty nasty things about Bosnian archaeologists).

If the Bosnian government were to assign one or more of their employed archaeologists to go to this site, couldn't that very easily be done? Of course I know nothing about the Bosnian gov't.
Thanks

Please forgive me Beagle, for answering your question that you've asked someone else.

Bosnia archeologists are NOT working in private company, so they don't need to "collect funds and donations" as some people suggest here. They are employed by goverment (public servants, let's say) and they are on STATE BUDGET. So they have their own budget to spend. In other words, they are going to get their salaries, regardless of are they sitting in the office, or they work in the field. Easiest way to enjoy STATE SALARY, is to sit in your office doing nothing, isn't it? Furthermore, aside of salaries, thay have STATE BUDGET FUNDS for excavations.

Old Town Visoko, on the top of Visocica (here mentioned very often) is prime example of this lazyness. This old bosnian capital faced so much "care" in past decades that now you can see there just a few stone blocks in high grass. It's ruined by archeologists here for decades: no restoration, no preservation. Actually, nobody was mentioning Old Town Visoko, until recent excavations on Visocica.

Osmanagis called (in written letters) all experts to join and help this project, including leading archeologists at National Museum. They didn't need to "go out and search funds" as some people here are suggesting, because funds were allready secured by Foundation. But even if there no funds secured by Foundation, they would get their salaries for working on Visocica. As I said, they gonna get theyr salary, regardless are they working or not. All they had to do is to go there, help if they can (and they surely can with their experience and knowledge) and even work as independent experts, why not? But they didn't even answer Osmanagich's written invitations.

Beagle wrote:

I am certainly far from the only person to call these mounds

I agree with you Doug. Many people, including those writers in National Geographic, do it too.

Rather than belabor the point, I would invite you to refer to my own definitions above and check them for yourself in reputable sources.

It's simly a case of words having different shades of meaning, I think.

When you think of pyramid you don't think of a stone tomb with huge heaps of earth piled up on top in a pyramid shape, do you? You expect when you dig into the top to find some structure of some sort.

stellarchaser wrote:

RK Awl-O'Gist wrote:

stellarchaser wrote: Yes, he is not archeologist, but at the very beginning of the whole affair, before excavations began, Osmanagish sent a letter to Bosnian archeologists asking them to come and help with their expertise. Actually he sent that letter twice, and nobody responded.

stellarchaser wrote: Why some archeologists from USA for example don't go there and work on Visocica?

I've already explained TWICE why archaeologists can't just drop everything and start digging on someone else's whim. Is there any chance of actually seeing some common sense in this thread?

It is unbelievable! First people here are claiming that someone independant has to overview excavations (which is reasonable) and then turned out that nobody wants to do that. What a hypocricy...C'mon people, decide what you want to do. If no one wants to go there, then don't criticize excavations on Visocica...now it sounds just like nothing but jealousy...

Don't forget that an archeologist has already gone to Visocica hill and asserted that it's just a hill. And before him, there was a team of geologists that did tests and claimed it was an natural non-manmade hill. You got what you wanted, professional archaeologists and geologists, but you don't like them because they didn't say what you expected them to say.

The first sentence on that web page reads "The pyramids of China are approximately 100 ancient mounds"

i do not count the chinese mounds as pyramids as we have similar mounds in korea, from the ancient shilla kingdom, and they are just that burial mounds. they come in all sizes and none are even remotely considered to be a form of a pyramid.

exactly when will this unesco team arrive and pronounce judgment?

alrom wrote:

stellarchaser wrote:

RK Awl-O'Gist wrote: I've already explained TWICE why archaeologists can't just drop everything and start digging on someone else's whim. Is there any chance of actually seeing some common sense in this thread?

It is unbelievable! First people here are claiming that someone independant has to overview excavations (which is reasonable) and then turned out that nobody wants to do that. What a hypocricy...C'mon people, decide what you want to do. If no one wants to go there, then don't criticize excavations on Visocica...now it sounds just like nothing but jealousy...

Don't forget that an archeologist has already gone to Visocica hill and asserted that it's just a hill. And before him, there was a team of geologists that did tests and claimed it was an natural non-manmade hill. You got what you wanted, professional archaeologists and geologists, but you don't like them because they didn't say what you expected them to say.

PLEASE don't tell me that archeologist who spent 15 minutes there can give any definitive answer regarding Visocica. He must be a prophet or what?

And Egyptian geologist Barakat is maybe fool working there for a month and saying that some of the blocks are definitely man made? And other three archeologists there are also fools digging the sole earth all this time?

And that monolith found in the tunnels with unknown inscriptions is also made by nature?

Or these pavement that we see on the pictures?

Pyramid or not, Visocica needs to be excavated, because it's settlement from prehistoric times. It surely hides many ancient artefacts. It is an ARCHEOLOGICAL SITE, and archeologists should be the first who would be interested to work there. But no, they claim is nothing there, and everything is natural.

It's obvious that some people would like these escavations to be stopped. But that won't happen. As I said before, everything is legal, with approvals from all institutions, including Bosnian goverment.

saying that some of the blocks are definitely man made?

that is the point. barakat just confirmed what everybody, who are on this website, already knew. we know SOME of the blocks were man made because there was construction on that hill ages ago. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

we are not saying the excavationshould be stopped, we are saying that this talk that it is a pyramid should be stopped because it isn't a pyramid.

who cares if Os digs there, just dig there as an archaeologist , do it in the proper manner and wait and see what one finds before declaring a national treasure or a pre-history discovery.

archaeologist wrote:

saying that some of the blocks are definitely man made?

that is the point. barakat just confirmed what everybody, who are on this website, already knew. we know SOME of the blocks were man made because there was construction on that hill ages ago. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

we are not saying the excavationshould be stopped, we are saying that this talk that it is a pyramid should be stopped because it isn't a pyramid.

who cares if Os digs there, just dig there as an archaeologist , do it in the proper manner and wait and see what one finds before declaring a national treasure or a pre-history discovery.

I can't say it is a pyramid at this early stage, but also how can you say it's not. All I'm saying: excavations just begun; let's wait and see what will be found. As I said, it's an archeological site, and some discoveries can be expected. Let's wait and see what, instead of "spitting" on each other on this thread. Here some say they BELIEVE it's pyramid, some they say the BELIEVE it's not. Believing has nothing to do with science.

Nor being there for 15 minutes, as that English gentleman, and boldy saying it's a hoax. What a science!

stellarchaser wrote: Nor being there for 15 minutes, as that English gentleman, and boldy saying it's a hoax. What a science!

And how do you know how long he was there? I've seen all sorts of nonsense, claims that he was drunk, whatever.

And do you work for the Foundation?

stellarchaser wrote:Bosnia archeologists are NOT working in private company, so they don't need to "collect funds and donations" as some people suggest here. They are employed by goverment (public servants, let's say) and they are on STATE BUDGET. So they have their own budget to spend. In other words, they are going to get their salaries, regardless of are they sitting in the office, or they work in the field. Easiest way to enjoy STATE SALARY, is to sit in your office doing nothing, isn't it? Furthermore, aside of salaries, thay have STATE BUDGET FUNDS for excavations

Whether they have state funds or not, they need PERMISSION to spend it-that's how local government works. They need to put detailed proposals into a finance officer, who then says yea or nay. It then goes before a committee for approval. It's designed to stop corruption, and I don't expect Bosnia to be any different to anywhere else.
If STATE archaeologists haven't flocked to join the dig, it's because they haven't been authorised to; they are NOT independent. If the government hasn't allowed them to go, it obviously doesn't think the country's national interests would be best served that way. And yet you still state that this entire project has been government-approved from start to finish?!
Osmanagich stated in a press release last DECEMBER that there was a "pyramid" under that hill-long before anyone started excavating. Check out HIS alleged "psychic powers" before you start slandering that English expert.

DougWeller wrote: And do you work for the foundation?

Probably; him a few other frequent visitors to this thread. In fact, it's a suspicious coincidence how many irate Bosnians have suddenly started appearing here.

DougWeller wrote:

stellarchaser wrote: Nor being there for 15 minutes, as that English gentleman, and boldy saying it's a hoax. What a science!

And how do you know how long he was there? I've seen all sorts of nonsense, claims that he was drunk, whatever.

And do you work for the Foundation?

I am not working for foundation, never had been working and haven't even been in Visoko. I just have some opinion about whole thing. I hope it's not a crime.

And I don't ask anybody here who do they work for, although that question can be asked too. I though that we would discuss these excavations in civilized manner, waiting to see what will be found out there. I think any scientist with good will and proffesional curiosity should do that.

RK Awl-O'Gist wrote:

stellarchaser wrote:Bosnia archeologists are NOT working in private company, so they don't need to "collect funds and donations" as some people suggest here. They are employed by goverment (public servants, let's say) and they are on STATE BUDGET. So they have their own budget to spend. In other words, they are going to get their salaries, regardless of are they sitting in the office, or they work in the field. Easiest way to enjoy STATE SALARY, is to sit in your office doing nothing, isn't it? Furthermore, aside of salaries, thay have STATE BUDGET FUNDS for excavations

Whether they have state funds or not, they need PERMISSION to spend it-that's how local government works. They need to put detailed proposals into a finance officer, who then says yea or nay. It then goes before a committee for approval. It's designed to stop corruption, and I don't expect Bosnia to be any different to anywhere else.
If STATE archaeologists haven't flocked to join the dig, it's because they haven't been authorised to; they are NOT independent. If the government hasn't allowed them to go, it obviously doesn't think the country's national interests would be best served that way. And yet you still state that this entire project has been government-approved from start to finish?!
Osmanagich stated in a press release last DECEMBER that there was a "pyramid" under that hill-long before anyone started excavating. Check out HIS alleged "psychic powers" before you start slandering that English expert.

DougWeller wrote: And do you work for the foundation?

Probably; him a few other frequent visitors to this thread. In fact, it's a suspicious coincidence how many irate Bosnians have suddenly started appearing here.

Do you really think that someone can start excavations on protected site without official approvals? I must laugh. They would end up in jail in 24h, as in any other country.

It's simly a case of words having different shades of meaning, I think.

I agree. I only mentioned it because you made such a definate statement about Chinese pyramids.

R/K - thanks for answering me.