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If you can't argue with friends Min who can you argue with?

Roy.

Minimalist wrote:

"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own."

--Thomas Jefferson

I gotta go with Jefferson here.

You need to understand the difference for Jefferson between "priests" and "ministers", min.

Maybe true for Catholic "priests", but not in North American Native American societies.

E.P. Grondine wrote:

Minimalist wrote:

"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own."

--Thomas Jefferson

I gotta go with Jefferson here.

You need to understand the difference for Jefferson between "priests" and "ministers", min.

Maybe true for Catholic "priests", but not in North American Native American societies.

Priests, ministers, shamans, they all share the same elitist Jedi attitude towards mere mortals, laymen, their 'flocks'. And generally they are in cahoots with 'the man'.

Hi min, RS -

I am sorry that you have met people who abused religion and insisted on "sharing" their confusion by tryng to impose it on you.
I have had the same experiences, and they have left me a more than a little bitter then.

In modern Native American societies, spiritual guidance is a responsibility, performed at hard personal cost.
As a result spiritual guides never hang out shingles, nor impose their views.
It is known by most that anyone who does so is not really a spiritual guide.
You actually have to seek out spiritual guides; they don't advertise.

I hope that this clears things up for you somewhat, but I doubt that without the experiences you will be able to understand.
Check out New Age Frauds and Plastic Shamans (NAFPS)- you might gain a better understanding by reading it.

Sorry, E.P.

Anyone who thinks he can talk to 'spirits' is either a con man or a nut.

I hope Ish doesn't see that Min or your ear is in for a right caning!

Roy.

Sorry, E.P.

Anyone who thinks he can talk to 'spirits' is either a con man or a nut.

And it seems to (have) be(en) a fixed trait in those who are trying to convince the public of their doomsday scenarios. All through the ages.

Digit wrote:I hope Ish doesn't see that Min or your ear is in for a right caning!

Roy.

Oh there you are. I was beginning to wonder about you.

At our age unexplained absences can be dangerous.


I can't recall Ish actually telling me that she "spoke" to spirits or that they "spoke" to her. You're probably right, though. Good thing we are 8,000 miles apart.

I'm still here Min, nothing's dropped off lately!
Been away for a few days.

Roy.

Always refreshing news!