Philo's guide to decoding the Hebrew Bible

[Ishtar]

while the Pharisees tended to rely on a deeper understanding they called the 'Oral Torah' which prevented blinding stupidity (sorry, couldn't resist).

Who are you calling 'stupid!

Oh no... sorry. I thought I was talking to Min.

[seeker]

It took some doing but a search for Gaster and "Justin Martyr" and Dead Sea Scrolls turned up this link to Acharya S and The Christ Conspiracy....BTW, this link is to an online version of the book which, unfortunately cannot be cut and pasted but still may be of some value for research.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/3261220/Achar ... Conspiracy


Anyway, on Page 315 of my print edition it states:

"The Book of Enoch was found at the Dead Sea, as were scrolls containing quotations identical to one in the Epistle of Barnabas and one in the works of Justin Martyr, thus proving the connection between the Christians and the Zadokites." The footnote accompanying this citation is to Baigent and Leigh and a 1991 book called "The Dead Sea Scrolls Deception."

I suppose one could look at that quickly and read it as saying that Justin's works were found at Qumran?

Unfortunately this is why you have to read Acharya S carefully. She does tend to take things and run with them.

[seeker]

while the Pharisees tended to rely on a deeper understanding they called the 'Oral Torah' which prevented blinding stupidity (sorry, couldn't resist).

Who are you calling 'stupid!

Oh no... sorry. I thought I was talking to Min.

Hey, I don't care if you want to take shots at Min but don't involve me in them.

[Minimalist]

while the Pharisees tended to rely on a deeper understanding they called the 'Oral Torah' which prevented blinding stupidity (sorry, couldn't resist).

Who are you calling 'stupid!

Oh no... sorry. I thought I was talking to Min.

See what happens?

[Minimalist]

While digging around for the other citation I stumbled across this:

http://www.earlyjewishwritings.com/text ... ook37.html

It includes Eusebius' report of Philo's description of the Essenes. Granted that Eusebius has an unsavoury reputation for twisting the truth it is hard to see what motivation he would have to tamper with the ideas of Philo noted here. He was, by this time, merely describing a dead sect....or so he thought.

(11.1) But our lawgiver trained an innumerable body of his pupils to partake in those things, who are called Essenes, being, as I imagine, honoured with this appellation because of their exceeding holiness. And they dwell in many cities of Judaea, and in many villages, and in great and populous communities. (11.2) And this sect of them is not an hereditary of family connexion; for family ties are not spoken of with reference to acts voluntarily performed; but it is adopted because of their admiration for virtue and love of gentleness and humanity. (11.3) At all events, there are no children among the Essenes, no, nor any youths or persons only just entering upon manhood; since the dispositions of all such persons are unstable and liable to change, from the imperfections incident to their age, but they are all full-grown men, and even already declining towards old age, such as are no longer carried away by the impetuosity of their bodily passions, and are not under the influence of the appetites, but such as enjoy a genuine freedom, the only true and real liberty. (11.4) And a proof of this is to be found in their life of perfect freedom; no one among them ventures at all to acquire any property whatever of his own, neither house, nor slave, nor farm, nor flocks and herds, nor any thing of any sort which can be looked upon as the fountain or provision of riches; but they bring them together into the middle as a common stock, and enjoy one common general benefit from it all. (11.5) And they all dwell in the same place, making clubs, and societies, and combinations, and unions with one another, and doing every thing throughout their whole lives with reference to the general advantage; (11.6) but the different members of this body have different employments in which they occupy themselves, and labour without hesitation and without cessation, making no mention of either cold, or heat, or any changes of weather or temperature as an excuse for desisting from their tasks. But before the sun rises they betake themselves to their daily work, and they do not quit it till some time after it has set, when they return home rejoicing no less than those who have been exercising themselves in gymnastic contests; (11.7) for they imagine that whatever they devote themselves to as a practice is a sort of gymnastic exercise of more advantage to life, and more pleasant both to soul and body, and of more enduring benefit and equability, than mere athletic labours, inasmuch as such toil does not cease to be practised with delight when the age of vigour of body is passed; (11.8 ) for there are some of them who are devoted to the practice of agriculture, being skilful in such things as pertain to the sowing and cultivation of lands; others again are shepherds, or cowherds, and experienced in the management of every kind of animal; some are cunning in what relates to swarms of bees; (11.9) others again are artisans and handicraftsmen, in order to guard against suffering from the want of anything of which there is at times an actual need; and these men omit and delay nothing, which is requisite for the innocent supply of the necessaries of life. (11.10) Accordingly, each of these men, who differ so widely in their respective employments, when they have received their wages give them up to one person who is appointed as the universal steward and general manager; and he, when he has received the money, immediately goes and purchases what is necessary and furnishes them with food in abundance, and all other things of which the life of mankind stands in need. (11.11) And those who live together and eat at the same table are day after day contented with the same things, being lovers of frugality and moderation, and averse to all sumptuousness and extravagance as a disease of both mind and body. (11.12) And not only are their tables in common but also their dress; for in the winter there are thick cloaks found, and in the summer light cheap mantles, so that whoever wants one is at liberty without restraint to go and take whichever kind he chooses; since what belongs to one belongs to all, and on the other hand whatever belongs to the whole body belongs to each individual. (11.13) And again, if any one of them is sick he is cured from the common resources, being attended to by the general care and anxiety of the whole body. Accordingly the old men, even if they happen to be childless, as if they were not only the fathers of many children but were even also particularly happy in an affectionate offspring, are accustomed to end their lives in a most happy and prosperous and carefully attended old age, being looked upon by such a number of people as worthy of so much honour and provident regard that they think themselves bound to care for them even more from inclination than from any tie of natural affection. (11.14) Again, perceiving with more than ordinary acuteness and accuracy, what is alone or at least above all other things calculated to dissolve such associations, they repudiate marriage; and at the same time they practise continence in an eminent degree; for no one of the Essenes ever marries a wife, because woman is a selfish creature and one addicted to jealousy in an immoderate degree, and terribly calculated to agitate and overturn the natural inclinations of a man, and to mislead him by her continual tricks; (11.15) for as she is always studying deceitful speeches and all other kinds of hypocrisy, like an actress on the stage, when she is alluring the eyes and ears of her husband, she proceeds to cajole his predominant mind after the servants have been deceived. (11.16) And again, if there are children she becomes full of pride and all kinds of license in her speech, and all the obscure sayings which she previously meditated in irony in a disguised manner she now begins to utter with audacious confidence; and becoming utterly shameless she proceeds to acts of violence, and does numbers of actions of which every one is hostile to such associations; (11.17) for the man who is bound under the influence of the charms of a woman, or of children, by the necessary ties of nature, being overwhelmed by the impulses of affection, is no longer the same person towards others, but is entirely changed, having, without being aware of it, become a slave instead of a free man. (11.18 ) This now is the enviable system of life of these Essenes, so that not only private individuals but even mighty kings, admiring the men, venerate their sect, and increase their dignity and majesty in a still higher degree by their approbation and by the honours which they confer on them.

The last line seems a bit over the top. Nonetheless, one can certainly see where De Vaux gets his idea of medieval monks.

[Ishtar]

It's more than the last line. That whole last section is pure misogyny...nothing less. Obviously Philo had issues.

[Minimalist]

Or Eusebius did.

[Ishtar]

Min, you say that I am ignoring the political reality of open warfare in Judaea at the time. But I'm not. You and Seeker have been referring to what Seeker calls Roman smackdowns. I've been thinking more about the internecine warfare that was going on among the Jews before Titus walked in.

Josephus says (somewhere, I can't lay my hands on the quote right now) that when the Roman armies finally entered Jerusalem, it was easy because most of their work had been done for them. Admittedly, there had been a long seige that led to famine, but also many Jews had already been killed by the fighting between the three Zealot factions led by Simeon bar Giora, Yohana of Gush- Halab and Eleazar ben Yair, who each had take over a part of Jerusalem. There were dead bodies everywhere, and not just a result of the famine.

I cannot see, at that time, that the Romans would come down on any religious sect because they prided themselves on letting people practise their own religions to some extent anyway, and in wasn't until centuries later, when Constantine was on the throne, that the Romans would have been a danger to the various religious sects.

So I think, if the scrolls were buried at that time (which is uncertain and only an assumption) it would have been more as a result of religious infighting, and one sect appearing at one time to be gainng the upper hand over another, than any Roman Smackdown.

And btw, sorry about Justin Martyr. I did read it too quickly, and it tripped me up as you said.

[seeker]

Misogyny was a general thing back then. They had a notion (I'll find a reference) that men were imperfect copies of spirits and that women were imperfect copies of men. That's why a lot of the mystery women excluded men. If I can find it I actually have a quote of one of the early Christians promising to make women men so they can be saved.

[Ishtar]

Or Eusebius did.

But what would be Eusebius's motive?

[Ishtar]

Misogyny was a general thing back then. They had a notion (I'll find a reference) that men were imperfect copies of spirits and that women were imperfect copies of men. That's why a lot of the mystery women excluded men. If I can find it I actually have a quote of one of the early Christians promising to make women men so they can be saved.

Blimey!

[seeker]

Min, you say that I am ignoring the political reality of open warfare in Judaea at the time. But I'm not. You and Seeker have been referring to what Seeker calls Roman smackdowns. I've been thinking more about the internecine warfare that was going on among the Jews before Titus walked in.

Josephus says (somewhere, I can't lay my hands on the quote right now) that when the Roman armies finally entered Jerusalem, it was easy because most of their work had been done for them. Admittedly, there had been a long seige that led to famine, but also many Jews had already been killed by the fighting between the three Zealot factions led by Simeon bar Giora, Yohana of Gush- Halab and Eleazar ben Yair, who each had take over a part of Jerusalem. There were dead bodies everywhere, and not just a result of the famine.

I cannot see, at that time, that the Romans would come down on any religious sect because they prided themselves on letting people practise their own religions to some extent anyway, and in wasn't until centuries later, when Constantine was on the throne, that the Romans would have been a danger to the various religious sects.

So I think, if the scrolls were buried at that time (which is uncertain and only an assumption) it would have been more as a result of religious infighting, and one sect appearing at one time to be gainng the upper hand over another, than any Roman Smackdown.

And btw, sorry about Justin Martyr. I did read it too quickly, and it tripped me up as you said.

I think Josephus overplays the whole conflict between Jewish sects thing, probably to justify the Roman persecution of Jews as unruly troublemakers (see, they couldn't even get along with each other).

[Ishtar]

Is his the only eye witness account to that, Seeker?

[Ishtar]

On top of that, there was the mass suicide at Masada, where hundreds of Zealots killed themselves.

This from a Psychoanalytic History of the Jews by Avner Falk.



National suicide is a very strong term, if it's referring to something that's not true or never happened.

[seeker]

Is his the only eye witness account to that, Seeker?

That I know of other than the bible.