Caral, Peru

stan · Post by **stan** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:09 pm

Looks like it is known how the quipu was used in historical times. But they can't be decoded now.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:11 pm

IF there was a language of the quipus, it would seem that
it might be related to the glyph system, linguistically.

i'm not too sure stand
Glyphs tend to represent ideograms so are always open to interpretation
the Quipu is much more scientific than that imo

stan · Post by **stan** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:26 pm

But what about the numerical information...
I mean,they had a numbering system developed in the quipu
I suppose before the glyphs. The quipu lasted for several thousand years. Later, the Mayas used a counting system of
bars and dots, which appears to be sort of like ones, fives, tens, and so forth.
It just makes me wonder why they didn't combine the system of the quipus with the glyphic system.
Maybe it had something to do with another (?) system,the calendrical one.
I am math challenged, I admit.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:44 pm

they don't actually know the connection between Caral and the Inca Quipu yet
maybe we should wait for more data first

Cognito · Post by **Cognito** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:22 pm

Marduk wrote:

they don't actually know the connection between Caral and the Inca Quipu yet
maybe we should wait for more data first

Quipus imply that the inhabitants of Caral were a proto-Quechuan group (current day ancestors being primarily Quechuas and Aymaras). The Quechua tribe introduced the use of the quipu throughout their newly formed empire, ruled by the king who was called the Inca (i.e. head dude).

stan · Post by **stan** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:47 pm

I enjoy speculating. It keeps my brain from
atrophying.
However, I have to back up, because I forgot that the quipu seems to have
been confined to the Incas.....
BUt....it seems that there was a cultural diffusion out of Peru to the
S. and Central America. over a long time....and migrations and various
kingdoms that rose and fell.
Now I am wondering wy the quipu did not spread to the other cultures.

more later.

Post by **Minimalist** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 7:21 pm

It seems as if "reading" quipu might have been a highly specialized skill. We tend to forget that even in the West literacy was not widespread until recently in historical terms.

Perhaps there was some elite group (Imperial Scribes, to coin a phrase) who had the duty to read and write these things for their bosses. Such knowledge could easily have been lost when Inca society fell.

stan · Post by **stan** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 7:55 pm

good point, bob.

my superficial research says that the olmecs or zapotecs had the first
writing in mesoamerica about 650 - 500 bce.

So there seems to be a big gap of space and time to connect...

Post by **Minimalist** » Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:22 pm

I have little confidence in those dates, Stan.

stan · Post by **stan** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 8:09 am

You think they should go back further?
I seem to remember some murals discovered recently that
had glyphs on them, but were much older...don't remember where.

Post by **Minimalist** » Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:12 am

Probably.

The inherent limitation of C14 dating on "associated material" is that C14 can only date organic matter. The climate in moist areas argues against the long term survival of organic matter except in unusual circumstances.

I also recall something about the murals. Can't place it.

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:54 pm

Before we let this thread sink into oblivion, I have a thought. Caral, in the articles that I have read is being hailed as the pre-cursor city of the Inca. It has been called the oldest city and it has not been improved by those Caralians that came later.

When I look at the maps of the city, I see a perfectly planned community. Planned before the first stone was laid.

Most first attempts meet with at least minor flaws and have to be redone. But not Caral, according to those articles.

Speculating - I think there must be a still earlier city somewhere. I've come to believe that and knew that you would all want to know.

Post by **Minimalist** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:57 pm

Perhaps on the continental shelf?

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:59 pm

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 2:39 pm

Actually now, I'm just saying that it doesn't seem like a normal human settlement. One that , over time, improves itself and started from a few people settling there in haphazard fashion.

Since they seem to have marine life as a food staple, it's probablly up or down the coast - near a fresh water source.