Early American Indians

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:16 pm

I thinks he's talking about chapter 1 as one and chapter 2 as another. Chapter 2 adds more details and so some interpret it as a different version.

Ahhh...O.K. Yeah, I've always read Chapter 2 as complementary to 1, not a different account.

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:16 pm

With regard to Spirit Cave Man, the references cited by Charlie and then Gary date the mummy to 9000+ years. Is this legitimate?

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:18 pm

With regard to Spirit Cave Man, the references cited by Charlie and then Gary date the mummy to 9000+ years. Is this legitimate?

As far as I know, Monk.

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:23 pm

Quite legitimate. Clovis man entered NA via the Bering Strait land bridge 12000 yrs. ago, according to the mainstreamers.

Gary Svindal · Post by **Gary Svindal** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:29 pm

Cognito: At last word a Court Order dated 09/21/06 remanded the matter back to Bureau of Land Management for further proceedings consistent with the Order.

It would seem the Kennewick Man issue established a legal precedent, and the 9,400-year-old remains of Spirit Cave Man has been determined NOT to be Native American. The Paiute/Shoshone tribes will lose this case and a DNA analysis will be forthcoming. Hooray!

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:29 pm

Quite legitimate. Clovis man entered NA via the Bering Strait land bridge 12000 yrs. ago, according to the mainstreamers.

Or 13,500 "calibrated" years ago, which I think is the way the Spirit Cave mummy is quoted (9,000 calibrated years). The Leanne burial at Wilson-Leonard was dated at 11,000 "calibrated" years or 9500 B.P. uncal.

Charlie Hatchett · Post by **Charlie Hatchett** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:30 pm

It would seem the Kennewick Man issue established a legal precedent, and the 9,400-year-old remains of Spirit Cave Man has been determined NOT to be Native American. The Paiute/Shoshone tribes will lose this case and a DNA analysis will be forthcoming. Hooray!

Awesome news, Gary!

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:31 pm

Beagle wrote:Quite legitimate. Clovis man entered NA via the Bering Strait land bridge 12000 yrs. ago, according to the mainstreamers.

According to one of the previous references, he was typed as Halpogroup X. I don't believe X migrated across asia iirc. I believe X spread across europe. Given the read hair, it supports the idea of a proto-european.

Again I may fuzzy on my genetics.

EDIT:
Maybe I mis-read and it DID NOT state specifically this mummy was typed.

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:48 pm

Halpogroup X.

The National Geographic Genographic Project has X going across the land bridge iirc. It's a good study in light of what we now know. It has become very vogue when talking about genetics. My feelings are that much about it will change over time.

Recent fossil evidence has an early man possible entering NA on the Atlantic seaboard, like you are saying. I like to stick with fossil evidence.

I don't know anything about this particular "Indian" though.

Post by **Minimalist** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:52 pm

Forum Monk wrote:
Charlie Hatchett wrote: The only one I'm aware of is: Genesis 1:1-2:25

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se ... &version=9;

Is there another?
I thinks he's talking about chapter 1 as one and chapter 2 as another. Chapter 2 adds more details and so some interpret it as a different version.

Sorry, MOnk....

In Chapter 1 he makes man and woman at the same time and in Chapter 2 he makes woman from Adam's rib....after having completed his "work."

Chapter 2
1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

2 continues....

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

and continues....

21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

This is more than adding details.....this is a significantly new version...a version in which the priests who wrote it wanted to make it crystal clear that women were to be subservient.

Cognito · Post by **Cognito** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:03 pm

According to one of the previous references, he was typed as Halpogroup X. I don't believe X migrated across asia iirc. I believe X spread across europe. Given the read hair, it supports the idea of a proto-european.

Monk, I don't believe Spirit Cave Man has been through genetic analysis yet, otherwise we would have experienced a firestorm. Haplogroup X is mtDNA X, the maternal marker being used. A good source of analysis would be teeth. That marker wouldn't be a big deal since 3% of North American natives have mtDNA X. I am really interested in his yDNA male marker and that's where we would find a surprise. I don't believe it will be yDNA haplogroup Q, but something else that was evident in Eurasia during the late Pleistocene, early Holocene.

By the way, Gary. Thanks for the update!

Barracuda · Post by **Barracuda** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:11 pm

Thanks, Charlie!

I found this one to be a little creepy since I commando camped by myself on Wizzard's Beach on night. I had been kayaking and didn't want to go looking for a legal campsite. Its on the Piute reservation, but they are OK bunch there. Not like some other places...

WIZARDS BEACH MAN - PYRAMID LAKE, NEVADA

Yet another non-Amerind skeleton has been found at a place called Pyramid Lake, Nevada. The remains are known as Wizards Beach Man. This skeleton has been dated as being 9225 years old. Once again the skull shape is distinctly "long" (that is, European) and very different to the Mongoloid shape of original Amerind racial types.

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:15 pm

Beagle wrote:Recent fossil evidence has an early man possible entering NA on the Atlantic seaboard, like you are saying. I like to stick with fossil evidence.

It seems some of the recent threads on this board are seeing more and more evidence that supports this, Beag. I do agree, however, it pays to stick with hardcore evidence rather than speculative theories.

Beagle · Post by **Beagle** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:19 pm

we're anxiously awaiting the news from Al Goodyears' Topper site, maybe later this year.

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:24 pm

Minimalist wrote:This is more than adding details.....this is a significantly new version...a version in which the priests who wrote it wanted to make it crystal clear that women were to be subservient.

Min, I can see what you're saying about a different version. I think I'll looked deeper into some of the original language and try to do my own interpretation rather than what I heard elsewhere. In any case I don't buy the subservient statement. I think if I wanted to dimish a woman's role I would had her being created from another part of the anatomy.

I'll comment more later after some research.