Cave 13b - the 164k question

Ishtar · Post by **Ishtar** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:41 am

woodrabbit wrote:".

Ishtar, FYI...have left money in my will for the hiring of a Psychopomp in case I botch the Bardo.

Cool, woodrabbit.

Just back from my excursions into the Realm of Dead (sheer stunning Beauty), so if you need a psychopomp, I now know the way.

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:57 am

Ishtar wrote:Just back from my excursions into the Realm of Dead ...I now know the way.

Is it true the way is paved with good intentions?

(just kidding

)

Ishtar · Post by **Ishtar** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:13 pm

Forum Monk wrote:
Ishtar wrote:Just back from my excursions into the Realm of Dead ...I now know the way.
Is it true the way is paved with good intentions?

(just kidding )

No, FM - that's the road to hell...

But there is no hell, I promise you.

Post by **Minimalist** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:19 pm

Welcome home, Ish.

Ishtar · Post by **Ishtar** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:31 pm

Thank you, Min. It's good to be back.

Actually, FM, I did discover that there once was a hell, but they'd had to shut it down. What with burning all that fossil fuel and all, Satan was getting worried about his carbon footprint.

Ishtar · Post by **Ishtar** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:10 pm

kbs2244 wrote:The Western author attributed to that poem, John Godfry Saxe, is a distant relative of mine.
While I have no doubt he stole the idea for it, I have to take pride in his translating not only the words but the thought.

KB, your relative's poem comes from a story by Rudyard Kipling who picked it up while in India. as it's an allegorical or metaphorical story (or parable) that gurus often recount to their disciples.

I think you're right to take pride in such an enlightened and talented relative. Maybe it's in the DNA, KB, and you have hidden talents?

Cognito · Post by **Cognito** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:58 am

But there is no hell, I promise you.

Ish, I always thought hell was self-created. As a matter of fact, I know some people who live there.

rich · Post by **rich** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:30 am

Like they say - "one man's heaven is another man's hell."

Ishtar · Post by **Ishtar** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 1:15 pm

The Christians took the shamanic Lower World and Upper World - which are different but not in terms of good and evil - and turned them into Hell and Heaven. Then they came up with the fiction that you go to Heaven when you die if you're good, and Hell if you're bad.

At around the same time, many religions, including the Vedantic one, were also coming up with this new idea of good deeds earning you, in the case of Christianity, a place in heaven, or in the case of the Indian Vedanta, a more auspicious and comfortable existence in your next lifetime. This is known as the doctrine of karma.

However, in the most ancient literature (circa 3000 BC), like the Rig-veda, there is no mention of this moralistic set up, or the doctrine of karma. If a farmer's cow couldn't conceive, or produce milk, the shaman went into the causal dimension to find out why and then put it right. Same for any illness or affliction, or tragedy or just bad luck.

In those days, you didn't earn salvation, or buy it. It was readily available to man, as only a cruel God like Yahweh would withhold it from him. It's also readily available today, but the priests and pontiffs don't know where to go to get it. So they made up this heaven and hell story, and tried to terrify us into being good.

kbs2244 · Post by **kbs2244** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 1:41 pm

Come on, Ish.
Heaven and Hell are hardly a Christian invention.
The Hindus have 28 different levels of hell, and though I do not believe in it, I would prefer the Christian version to some of them.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/articl ... tml?cat=16

On another subject; The description of the cyclic nature of the Hindu concept of time on this site sure ring a bell of familiarity with the Maya concept.
Is this another indication of some kind of linkage between India and
Central-America?
Have we talked about it before and I missed it?

Ishtar · Post by **Ishtar** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:45 pm

kbs2244 wrote:Come on, Ish.
Heaven and Hell are hardly a Christian invention.
The Hindus have 28 different levels of hell, and though I do not believe in it, I would prefer the Christian version to some of them.

Yes, that's right KBS. The Hindus have got some pretty nasty hellish planets. But they're all from stories from the Vedanta, which is much later than the Vedas which has no hellish planets. The Vedantic literature is heavily influenced by Christianity.

In the earlier shamanic cultures, there is no heaven or hell - just an upper world and a lower world. For example, in the Sumerian Descent of Ishtar, she goes down into the Underworld. In this shamanic myth, the Underworld or Lower World is definitely not hell, but the Realm of the Dead, or the Realm of the Ancestors as the Lower World is sometimes called.

kbs2244 wrote:
On another subject; The description of the cyclic nature of the Hindu concept of time on this site sure ring a bell of familiarity with the Maya concept.
Is this another indication of some kind of linkage between India and
Central-America?
Have we talked about it before and I missed it?

Yes, and we can't seem to establish any link although there are lots of synchronicities. I used to think there was a south American connection with India going back to the Maya. But now I think that there was a similar spiritual practice worldwide, and pockets of it in certain places have produced similar artefacts.

john · Post by **john** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:25 pm

All -

Of boats, and large mammals, and

The membrane of the sea.

http://www.dailyindia.com/show/229543.p ... ling-scene

Now, couple-three interesting items........

Its deep in the Russian Arctic,

And the boat was a Umiaq,

A large skin-on-frame open boat propelled by multiple paddlers

Which could carry a lot of cargo

Or tow a whale.

Umiaqs could go upward of 30-40 feet.

Multiple sets of whale remains were discovered,

Which indicates both a highly developed techne and

Technique,

All illustrated on a piece of ivory art.

Lastly, this mature techne and technique happened 3k years ago:

Obviously, it had been exercised for quite some time previous to

3K.

- All that's missing is the hematite -

hoka hey

John

And by the way, I referred to the sea as a membrane for several reasons,

Not the least of which is that the logos,

And the shamanic,

Are replete with saltwater underworlds, also.

j

Post by **Minimalist** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:43 pm

- All that's missing is the hematite -

Probably washed away by the snow.

john · Post by **john** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:17 pm

Minimalist wrote:
- All that's missing is the hematite -

Probably washed away by the snow.

Minimalist -

Along with the piss-stains.

More whaling fun.......

http://luna.pos.to/whale/jwa_trad.html

The Jomon were somewhat South

Of the Arctic,

But not that far..........

john

john · Post by **john** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:55 pm

All -

To round out the subject of whale hunting on the Pacific Rim......

http://content.lib.washington.edu/aipnw/renker.html

Und so.....

We have the Ainu people in the Japanese Archipeligo

And the proto-Aleuts in the Arctic

And the Makah in Washington,

A couple of hours drive from where I live.

All whalers using similar techne, and

In terms of location they

Cover the entire North Pacific Rim.

Whales? (read handaxes),

Naah.

Maritime societies? (read handaxes),

Naah.

Those footsore Beringians did the whole Northern Pacific

Cultural Mary-Ann all by themselves,

Living off the enormous food resources of lots of ice.

Just ask Das Klub.

john