Noah's Flood...

Random older topics of discussion

Moderators: MichelleH, Minimalist, JPeters

Locked
Guest

Post by Guest »

Why was it not contained in the other gospels!

Feh! Since the boy made this a "confession of faith" before running away like the coward he is, allow me to "put him to the question"--ordinary . . . and extraordinary.

The Good[(Sic)--Ed.] Doctor's Prodigiously Pretentiously Pomposely Pespicaciously Pedagogical Pediatric Pontine Tumor Proof

Science involves the explanation of observations. Theory produces predictions that must hold else the theory proves incorrect or incomplete. If a rock is dropped from a building aimed at John Kerry's head yet stops 13.27 inches above it, a physicist would have to explain this in light of the current theory of gravity. Perchance all of the hot air eminating [Stop that!--Ed.].

Right. Nothing like a real observation. So here is a real observation that requires explanation. Children and adolescents develop a rather nasty tumor of the brain stem, particularly the metencephalon, or pons. It is infiltrative and not amenable to surgery, radiation, or chemotherapy. The latter two therapies merely prolong the decline.

The decline? As with real estate, the watchword for the central nervous system is "location!" The tumor destroys the descending voluntary pathways and centers for the cranial nerves which enervate facial musculature whilst preserving the sensory pathways. The child progressively losses control of her body up to her eye muscles which allows some rudimentary communication. Since the trigger for consciousness is located in the more rostral ventral midbrain or mesencephalon, she remains conscious throughout the months of decline. During this deterioration, she retains sensation and consciousness. She feels every ulcer, every pain; she remains completely aware of her condition and decline.

Eventually, on a tracheostomy, she will succumb usually to an infection.

This is not only a real case, it is all too frequent.

This is a case of Unjustified Suffering unless you or anyone else can find some manner in which to justify it. Notice that I do not attack the death--people die. Perhaps she was destined to be the next Celine Dion. . . . It is the extent and severity of the suffering that renders it Unjustified Suffering. What did the child do to deserve it? Consider then why Josef Mengele passed easily from a stroke while swimming. Why did he apparently deserve a far easier passage?

Perhaps imagine a Heaven and a Hell--dream up a reward and punishment that will somehow magically balance the books, so to write? The problem remains the extent and severity of the suffering. If die she must, far quicker and less-severe methods do end a tyke's existence. Forced listening of country-western music, for example. Children do, unfortunately, ask what the did wrong to be punished by such a condition. What "reward" balances it? Is it greater than that obtained by children who die of leukemia, car accidents, and falling masonry? Why? Furthermore, that one imagines a Mengele horribly tortured throughout eternity--something involving fish hooks and Patsy Cline--does not justify the extensive and severe suffering of the child. Finally, if some grand argumentum ad ignorantium of a "reward" exists, why do not the children who die of the less-horrible leukemia and steam rollers deserve it?

Since No Alleviation of her suffering occured, we are left with Five Possible Choices [All Rights Reserved.--Ed.] regarding deities:
  • 1. No Deity Exists
    2. A Deity Exists and He is Evil
    3. A Deity Exists and He is Incompetent
    4. A Deity Exists and He is Irrelevant
    5. A Deity Exists and He is Some Combination of 2-4
archaeologist is, of course, free to choose from any one of the Five.

Why anyone would want to worship such is anyone's guess.

--J.D.
Minimalist
Forum Moderator
Posts: 16033
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:09 pm
Location: Arizona

Post by Minimalist »

Why anyone would want to worship such is anyone's guess.

Ask Dubya.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
Guest

Post by Guest »

He told me to ask his bother . . . Bill!

Remember, Bill "sought guidance," for his blow-job. . . .

--J.D.
ed
Posts: 176
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 4:37 pm

Post by ed »

archaeologist wrote:
There is zero evidence for your position. I am standing here with nothing that even vaguely supports you. Your position is absurd and is completely illogical.
obviously you have not read the first 65 pages of this thread. actually it isn't, if it was you would not be afraid to post your side's argument in a manner that is easily readable, logical, credible and so on.

the mere fact that you have to make the above statement shows that you have nothing to refute the biblical account.
There is zero evidence, that is the killer refutation.

So, we have you "believing" something on the sole authority of a document. What makes your belief system any different from Islam? Or any other mythology? If we walk away from proof they are all equi-likely.

BTW, love your physics, it is about as good as your vocabulary.
"The history of science is the record of dead religions"
Wilde
Guest

Post by Guest »

The fallacy is argumentum ad veritatem obfuscandam.

He thinks that by piling multiple irrelevant and rebutted arguments, he will create a valid conclusion.

In the rain.

--J.D.
Essan
Posts: 179
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 7:16 am
Location: Evesham, UK
Contact:

Post by Essan »

Well I did try. I did so want Arch to come up with something we could discuss rationally. But in the end the only evidence he has comes down to "I read it in a translation of an old folk tale, so it must be true".

And there endth our discussion.

P.S. I hear that witches live in houses made of a candy and that princes get turned into frogs - must be true 'cos I read all about it in an old folk tale. Oh, and the earth travels through space on the back of a giant turtle....
ed
Posts: 176
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 4:37 pm

Post by ed »

archaeologist wrote:[obviously you have not read the first 65 pages of this thread. actually it isn't, if it was you would not be afraid to post your side's argument in a manner that is easily readable, logical, credible and so on.
...
One other point.

A demonstration should not take 65 pages. It should take a link or two. The pact that this arm waving has gone on and on indirectly tells me that you have nothing of substance.

This is really rediculous. If I make a wackey contention that would have clear physical concomitants, that contention would be confirmed or refuted in moments. Why is this different?
Last edited by ed on Fri Sep 08, 2006 5:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
"The history of science is the record of dead religions"
Wilde
Guest

Post by Guest »

The turtle moves. . . .

--J.D.
Frank Harrist

Post by Frank Harrist »

Shhhhhhhhhhh! I think he's gone. You know he's been saying that he presented evidence ever since about page 5, but I don't remember seeing anything that wasn't refuted, yet he refuses to see said refutation. Poor lonely guy. I really feel sorry for him sometimes.
Leona Conner
Posts: 476
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:40 am
Location: Tennessee

Post by Leona Conner »

As I've said before, biblical belief demands invalidation of the scientific facts presented.
ed
Posts: 176
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 4:37 pm

Post by ed »

Frank Harrist wrote:Shhhhhhhhhhh! I think he's gone. You know he's been saying that he presented evidence ever since about page 5, but I don't remember seeing anything that wasn't refuted, yet he refuses to see said refutation. Poor lonely guy. I really feel sorry for him sometimes.
Last year I acquired an interesting panel ... here, I'll show you

Image

I liked it for a variety of reasons. I felt that it was "wrong" somehow, I didn't like the material for one thing. Yet, stylistically it was pretty good, Spanish ca. 1100 give or take.

Anyway, I posted it on various forums and even contacted the head of the Princeton U. medieval art project. The net was that while it looked good, there was something ......... So it's authenticty was "not proven".

Fast forward to 8 months after I obtained it. A fellow in Spain came across it in an exhibition catalog. All of the identifications were close but the thing (the original) resided in a really obscure church as part of a reliquary. I, armed with this information, was able to find the studio that makes repros.

I really wanted it to be real. Really. However, there was the evidence. Unassilable, in your face evidence. I suppose that I could have conjured up a story to the effect that mine was the original but I knew that this would have been so wrong as to have approximated a lie.

I think that I behaved as a rational person that understands evidence regardless of my personal feelings. That, in a word, is intellectual honesty.

Compare and contrast. If the flood happened there would be world wide evidence. Period, cut, end of discussion. There is none. Theory refuted. Unfortunately, when dealing with people who believe, evidence is undefined. We are left, therefore, with pious and shallow assertions. The really sad thing is that I do not think that he even understands the level of his self delusion. To, in one breath, say his contention is proven and in the next to fall back on the bible and his belief shows a troubled mind.

This has been an informative and interesting interchange for me. It has demonstrated how badly we have failed in our educational system in that critical thought appears to not be in Arch's intellectual armamentarium. Sad, in a way but it reinforces the need to keep religious based teaching way away from our schools.
"The history of science is the record of dead religions"
Wilde
Guest

Post by Guest »

I also have a panel:

Image


















What?

--J.D.
ed
Posts: 176
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 4:37 pm

Post by ed »

Doctor X wrote:I also have a panel:

Image




Image













What?

--J.D.
"The history of science is the record of dead religions"
Wilde
Minimalist
Forum Moderator
Posts: 16033
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:09 pm
Location: Arizona

Post by Minimalist »

Leona Conner wrote:As I've said before, biblical belief demands invalidation of the scientific facts presented.

That's because science is the work of the devil, Leona.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.

-- George Carlin
Leona Conner
Posts: 476
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:40 am
Location: Tennessee

Post by Leona Conner »

mea culpa :oops:
Locked