Current Biblical Archaeology

Post by **Minimalist** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:00 pm

John, is there an actual link to go with that site.

I'm having trouble following it.

Post by **Minimalist** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:11 pm

archaeologist wrote:
I've never seen anything to suggest that the Egyptians relied heavily on slave labor.
maybe since the israelites were already there they would have no need to record anything to indicate that they had slaves. there was no battle, so no spoils of war, which means no recording of the triumphs and no record of taking slaves.

there is more than one way to get a slave and when you have a large foreign work force already in your country, why would you tell anyone?

Were the Libyans already there? Were the Nubians already there? Egyptian expansion went in all directions...not just into Canaan. Why is there no tradition of slavery for those people?

Here's a typical carving of a Pharoah smiting enemies.

The only indications I've seen of actual slavery, was later in the New Kingdom period, which is well after the period in question. Hence my question to marduk.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:23 pm

Egyptian expansion went in all directions...not just into Canaan.

i am not talking about expansion, remember the israelites came to egypt intitially on their own and by their own choice. they weren't dragged there by egyptian methods or by conquest.

thus again, my question is; why would or should there be any record of slaves?

common sense would say there shouldn't be.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:35 pm

Hence my question to marduk.

what question ?

Post by **Minimalist** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:37 pm

There was apparently a long tradition of Canaanites (not Israelites who did not exist until the end of the LBA) seeking shelter in Egypt during times of drought during the entire Bronze Age. Finkelstein makes this point over and over again. However, the Hyksos, who also came from Canaan, not only sought shelter but apparently sought and obtained political power as the 15th Dynasty.

After the Hyksos were evicted the Egyptians became much more paranoid about border security....similar to Americans today. Border forts were built but even more importantly the Egyptians maintained a tight military control on Canaan for centuries. We have the archaeology to prove these points. Your side has nothing to prove that they were ever slaves.

Post by **Minimalist** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:39 pm

marduk wrote:
Hence my question to marduk.
what question ?

LOL.

Did you know of any reference to mass slavery in AE, basically during the Old Kingdom - early New Kingdom period. I've seen some reference to the use of slaves in Egypt later on but that would be far too late for the bible tale.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:40 pm

similar to Americans today

you mean they were wary of people from the middle east trying to start trouble
or that they didn't like hispanics taking all their jobs and selling cocaine?

Post by **Minimalist** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:41 pm

marduk wrote:
similar to Americans today
you mean they were wary of people from the middle east trying to start trouble
or that they didn't like hispanics taking all their jobs and selling cocaine?

Both.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:50 pm

We have the archaeology to prove these points. Your side has nothing to prove that they were ever slaves.

that is the point, there wouldn't be normal or what is expected archaeological evidence because their sojourn was not done in the normal way.

the evidence would have to follow the lines of people who have lived a normal life in the country for centuries before their status changed to slaves, thus the archaeological evidence would not be what you expect.

Post by **Minimalist** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 12:02 am

That's exactly the point. Once the Hyksos were chased out of Egypt there were no further incursions. The Egyptians clamped down on the border and had the military power to make sure that it didn't happen again.

From that time on the Egyptians called the shots in Canaan and that only seems to have ended in the middle of the 12th century ( c 1150-ish BC). We have the Amarna letters to tell us what was going on in Canaan during the 15th century and there were no Israelites mentioned.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 12:11 am

your avoiding the issue. i am not talking about the Hyksos nor Egyptian dominance in Canaan. i am talking about the kind of archaeological evidence that would be needed to examined which would relate to the Israelite time in Egypt.

400 years with most of that being as normal people, living normal lives in a country that is not their original home. how would you distinguish between Israelite evidence and Egyptian evidence?

you wouldn't, as both should be almost exactly the same. same clothes, same food (to an extent), same housing and so on. i live in korea, i wear korean made clothes, drive a korean made car, live in a korean made apartment, how would you know archaeologically that i was here and not korean?

ReneDescartes · Post by **ReneDescartes** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 1:34 am

I would think that we would identify your presence in Korea by the relgious parafernalia .

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:04 am

I would think that we would identify your presence in Korea by the relgious parafernalia

unfortunately, i do not have religious parafernalia, just a Bible. plus there are too many Christians here to be distinguishable

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:35 am

how would you know archaeologically that i was here and not korean

the remains of your subscription to the christian herald and the world weekly news would be a bit of a giveaway,
that and all the bodies of sinners you have buried under your patio

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:03 am

this isn't about me but judging from the responses i am getting i think i have finally hit home and you all are avoiding the issue.