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"WMD" is another recent one you may recall?

But where is the outrage in the streets? Sure, Bush's popularity is at historic lows but few seem willing to protest in the streets.

Maybe, if they ever tried to reinstitute the draft you'd see the colleges explode but right now this war is being fought by the future Walmart Employees of America and the upper classes don't give a damn.

Wakeup call - the American people recently went to the polls and voted in a Democrat congress to replace a Republican one.

This congress just voted to fund the war in Iraq in perpetuity.

So much for "la diferrance". Don't blame the government. Blame the the stupidity of the American voter!

Beagle wrote:
This congress just voted to fund the war in Iraq in perpetuity.

Military spending killed the Soviet Union.
Let's see what it'll do to the US.

It will do nothing R/S. We have way too much money. The USSR was poor to begin with.

Military spending killed the Soviet Union.
Let's see what it'll do to the US.

You are correct with regard to the Soviet Union; however, military spending in the USSR represented 25% of their GDP while the current rate for the US is flat at just under 4%. This can keep up for quite a while longer.

http://www.truthandpolitics.org/militar ... e-size.php

Minimalist wrote:... right now this war is being fought by the future Walmart Employees of America...

That's very harsh Min. I disagree completely. They are some of our finest and I salute them.

Cognito wrote:
the current rate for the US is flat at just under 4%. This can keep up for quite a while longer.

You hit the nail on the head. At that rate the US taxpayers will still be paying off the national debt in 300 years from now!

Then you had better check around on college campuses and find out what the upper classes are thinking, Monk.

The passing score on the written test is 31.

Criminal records are no longer a barrier.

Psychological problems are apparently no longer a barrier.


So the flag waving is nice and all but you really should make an effort to find out what is going on in this country.

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2006/07/ ... -eli-flyer

It is widely known that some recruiters will go to extraordinary lengths to help qualify applicants for military service. Providing a fraudulent high school diploma, ignoring an arrest record or a history of mental disorder, coaching for an aptitude test or medical exam—all these unacceptable recruiting practices, and many more, will be used by some recruiters to meet their quotas. A shortage of applicants leads to an increased pressure on recruiters to disregard regulations and use unacceptable methods to meet their quotas.

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract. ... 94DF404482

Dept of Defense records show that number of waivers granted to Army recruits with criminal backgrounds has increased 65 percent in last three years, in effort to expand its diminishing recruitment pool; sharpest increase is in waivers for serious misdemeanors, which includes aggravated assault, burglary, robbery and vehicular homicide; number of waivers for felony convictions also increased; other tactics to increase recruitment include cash bonuses, relaxed age and weight restrictions, and allowance of more high school dropouts; spike in waivers raises concerns about whether military is making too many exceptions to meet its recruitment demandss of waivers for Army and Marine recruits with criminal backgrounds

Note the "correction" which follows.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... LCIGK1.DTL

In February, the Baltimore Sun wrote that there was "a significant increase in the number of recruits with what the Army terms 'serious criminal misconduct' in their background" -- a category that included "aggravated assault, robbery, vehicular manslaughter, receiving stolen property and making terrorist threats." From 2004 to 2005, the number of those recruits rose by more than 54 percent, while alcohol and illegal drug waivers, reversing a four-year decline, increased by more than 13 percent.

I'd post more references to this problem but it is too goddamn depressing.

Min why do you think you're the only one who knows whats going on in America. How many recruits do you actually know? They are the sons and daughters of friends of mine. They are fine people, they are the kind who are willing to give everything so you can sit back and write your critical remarks.

The problems of military recruiting and waivers for minor crimes has been around since the second world war. But papers like the NY Times are going to find any excuse to criticise the administration and cast an unfavorable light on their decisions, and their statistics are meaningless. If I had 4 guys last year with waivers and 8 this year, that would be a 50% increase. Sounds startling doesn't it? Its crap.

I'm not necessarily defending the administration, but I reject these kinds of criticisms against our young people who give everything.

Since when is vehicular manslaughter a minor crime? Or aggravated assault?

If the army were capable of getting a sufficient number of acceptable recruits we would not be having this conversation. Are there genuine volunteers who want to serve? I hope so but clearly not enough to fill out the ranks during war time.

It is a serious problem and pretending that the "liberal media" is the problem is not going to solve anything.

Minimalist wrote:Since when is vehicular manslaughter a minor crime? Or aggravated assault?

I see the same kind of recruiting in sports. At least many in the military get "turned around" (not all) and come out better members of society. However in sports many atheletes are common street thugs and then they become well-paid street thugs.

Apples and oranges.

Morning Min. I've been told in the past that I have an odd way of looking at things, maybe, I don't know, but I do see a somewhat different slant to your view on recruits with criminal records.
They may go in as having criminal tendencies but I wonder what effect the discipline and comradeship might have on them. I suspect that in some cases it would be the best thing that ever happened to them.

Digit wrote:Morning Min. I've been told in the past that I have an odd way of looking at things, maybe, I don't know, but I do see a somewhat different slant to your view on recruits with criminal records.
They may go in as having criminal tendencies but I wonder what effect the discipline and comradeship might have on them. I suspect that in some cases it would be the best thing that ever happened to them.

Maybe so, but the bottomline is that tens of thousands of criminals and dimwits are now walking around wielding automatic weapons...
That's not a combination that leads to peace!

Minimalist wrote:Then you had better check around on college campuses and find out what the upper classes are thinking, Monk.

The passing score on the written test is 31.

Criminal records are no longer a barrier.

Psychological problems are apparently no longer a barrier.


So the flag waving is nice and all but you really should make an effort to find out what is going on in this country.

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2006/07/ ... -eli-flyer

It is widely known that some recruiters will go to extraordinary lengths to help qualify applicants for military service. Providing a fraudulent high school diploma, ignoring an arrest record or a history of mental disorder, coaching for an aptitude test or medical exam—all these unacceptable recruiting practices, and many more, will be used by some recruiters to meet their quotas. A shortage of applicants leads to an increased pressure on recruiters to disregard regulations and use unacceptable methods to meet their quotas.

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract. ... 94DF404482

Dept of Defense records show that number of waivers granted to Army recruits with criminal backgrounds has increased 65 percent in last three years, in effort to expand its diminishing recruitment pool; sharpest increase is in waivers for serious misdemeanors, which includes aggravated assault, burglary, robbery and vehicular homicide; number of waivers for felony convictions also increased; other tactics to increase recruitment include cash bonuses, relaxed age and weight restrictions, and allowance of more high school dropouts; spike in waivers raises concerns about whether military is making too many exceptions to meet its recruitment demandss of waivers for Army and Marine recruits with criminal backgrounds

Note the "correction" which follows.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... LCIGK1.DTL

In February, the Baltimore Sun wrote that there was "a significant increase in the number of recruits with what the Army terms 'serious criminal misconduct' in their background" -- a category that included "aggravated assault, robbery, vehicular manslaughter, receiving stolen property and making terrorist threats." From 2004 to 2005, the number of those recruits rose by more than 54 percent, while alcohol and illegal drug waivers, reversing a four-year decline, increased by more than 13 percent.

I'd post more references to this problem but it is too goddamn depressing.

Sadly what you say is true. Before (in another life when I had first hand experience in recruiting) it was easier for a fat man to squeeze through the eye of a needle than it was to get into the Marine Corps (Ooorah semper fi and all that.) There is a reason they had the motto "the few, the proud". Things have changed. IN a voluteer "army" at war with the reserves (the good hometown boys and girls that Monk is speaking about) and the regular troops..(more good, noble, hometown boys and girls)..but things have changed. It is true that recruiters had it hard before to make mission I personally know the ways some of the guys cheated back then...now...if it ever comes out (and of course it will) the depth of corruption in the recuiting business going on NOW...we will not ever look at our volunteer troups the same way again. Yes crooks are being let in..things that might be noticed in boot camps are allowed to pass because they need the body..for instance that fellow that planned and perpetrated the rape and murder of the Iraqi woman is a sociopath and seriously mentally disturbed. He should never have had a gun put in his hands...the same is the case with one of the major perps at Abu Grav...these seem like isolated instances now but in the future we will hear more horror stories and be ashamed.

Lowering the standards is the ONLY way they could/can make mission because kids who want to live are not going to join the military during war...and an illegal war at that. It's not like WWII where there was a clear and present danger (albeit most likely manipulated) and men and women flocked to protect their country and way of life.

Here was have a lying president who wants to keep us afraid of terrorists (I predict another attack on U.S. soil in the not so distant future..must keep us AFRAID)...so we will continue to back his little war...if we are afraid we will look the other way while more and more civil liberties fade away. I've got the stupid notion in my head that Bush has no intention of stepping down as president because that is how he is acting..insane though? I've thought more insane things in my life than that.

The Marines are no longer what I knew...even they relaxed their standards, they had to, they were running out of cannon fodder.