Early American Indians

[Minimalist]

LOL.


Perv!

[Minimalist]

P.S. - There are also two versions of the Noah story...a fact which used to drive Arch off the wall.

[Charlie Hatchett]

LOL.


Perv!

How 'bout we just knock it off. We could debate for years...right, Min?

I looked at some of your's and Arch's threads.

We'll never get around to talking about archeology.

And yes, I started it...my bad. Where's Cog? I need a spanking.

[Gary Svindal]

http://jsa.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/7/1/101

Judge John Jelderks found that Kennewick Man cannot be defined as Native American under the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act. A recent amicus brief in the legal case regarding repatriation of materials from Spirit Cave, Nevada, suggests that the Kennewick case should be used as legal precedent, and that the remains of Spirit Cave Man are also not Native American. We suggest that a precedent in cases of Paleoindian human remains is inappropriate and unnecessary. We provide bioarchaeological, human variation, archaeological, social, and cultural contexts of the Spirit Cave Man remains. These contexts indicate that this case, and likely all of the few Paleoindian cases, is unique. Determinations of repatriation of Paleoindians should be handled on a case-by-case basis.

The Spirit Cave Man has a long, narrow face with narrow cheekbones, a narrow chin and a protruding upper jaw. Those features and many other skull measurements show the man didn't look like a modern Indian or the Mongolians the Indians presumably descended from, scientists said.
The Spirit Cave Man's skull measurements, when compared to a data base of skull measurements from around the world, showed his skull traits had the most in common with Ainu or Polynesian populations, according to a study done by scientists from the Smithsonian Institution and the University of Tennessee.

The Ainu were the original inhabitants of Japan and many of their descendants still live on that nation's northernmost island. They lived in Asia before the people we now call Asians migrated there. They looked more like modern Caucasians than like modern American Indians or Asians, and had lots of body hair. Their predominant eye color was blue rather than brown, scientists said.

Douglas W. Owsley, curator of anthropology at the Smithsonian Institution, has studied many ancient skulls, including the Spirit Cave Man, which dates to 10,630 years ago, and the cranium of the Buhl Woman, which dates to 12,800 years ago.

He reported that these remains and other very ancient skulls all show much more in common with Pacific groups than with American Indians.

[Minimalist]

How 'bout we just knock it off. We could debate for years...right, Min?

Okay. Hell....there are no hand axes in the OT, either.

[Charlie Hatchett]

Buhl Woman, which dates to 12,800 years ago.

Now that's getting real close to Clovis.

ca. 13,000 cal is the minimum threshold for Clovis, iirc.

Clovis sites elsewhere give us some insight into ritual and belief systems. In southern Ontario ( Ellis and Deller 1991 ) a cache of about 200 burnt chert implements were discovered in a pit which may represent the remains of a cremation burial. Furthermore, at a Clovis burial site in Montana, powdered red ochre (hematite) was found on the remains of two adolescents and the grave goods that were buried with them. The use of red ochre on burials is an ancient one that extends back to European and Asian traditions. The practice persisted amongst many Aboriginal groups until the 19th century.

http://www.umanitoba.ca/faculties/arts/ ... ovis2.html

[Charlie Hatchett]

Okay. Hell....there are no hand axes in the OT, either.

O.K., you get the last jab.

I didn't mind that one a bit.

[Minimalist]

Furthermore, at a Clovis burial site in Montana, powdered red ochre (hematite) was found on the remains of two adolescents

Again with the red ochre.....it's a long way from Jericho to Montana.

[Charlie Hatchett]

Again with the red ochre.....it's a long way from Jericho to Montana.

I'm still looking for bones here. All this ocher, and the trouble they went through to make small, ornamental metal pieces. It smells of ritual to me.

[Minimalist]

Yes indeed.

Coincidence? Maybe.

[Cognito]

The skeletal remains here are old enough that they must have taken the Bering Land Bridge express route to make it all the way to the Caribbean in time to be radiocarbon dated. How frikken considerate:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5955043/

How many skeletons are we talking about, already? And nobody can do a decent genetic analysis on the remains to straighten out this link? WTF, that pisses me off. Charlie, get me my club ... and I don't mean The Club ... we have some heads to whack, dammit!

[Charlie Hatchett]

Yes indeed.

Coincidence? Maybe.

Perhaps?

I'm becoming fairly convinced these guys doing the metal working were here way prior to Clovis.

When I first starting investigating the site, I thought I was dealing with Neanderthal, possibly. But the hand-axes...the abundance of handaxes.
I don't know Bro. I need to e-mail Sharp with Berkeley to see if they got even some rough dating done.

I can tell you this: It's definitely not similar to Clovis (the lower strata-related to the metal stuff). More advanced in some ways...but prior to Clovis. The very upper strata finds remind me alot of Clovis.

Nothing like a damn good puzzle.

[Forum Monk]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5955043/

Fiedel, a defender of the "Clovis first" school, said the oldest estimate for the cave find still fits the Clovis time frame, though narrowly.

There really is a "Club" - well "school" - guess they haven't graduated yet.

[Charlie Hatchett]

we have some heads to whack, dammit!

Enough to piss you off good, ey.

[Charlie Hatchett]

Fiedel, a defender of the "Clovis first" school, said the oldest estimate for the cave find still fits the Clovis time frame, though narrowly.

Collins and Fiedel have duked it out quite a bit in the past concerning Monte Verde:

This is a bona fide archeological assemblage, it is very old, and it has profound implications for American prehistory.

http://www.archaeology.org/online/featu ... llins.html