You either didnt read correctly or you didnt understand it
ROFLMAO
You cant answer any questions
You cant even argue properly
You can only quote scripture
When faced with math your final tirade is about the end of the world
Sandwich boards and a soapbox required
What a waste of time
If that is your best then I wil argue with you no more
Noah's Flood...
Moderators: MichelleH, Minimalist, JPeters
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archaeologist2
very sophomoric on your part and again you run from facing the truth.
here is something else to comtemplate:
with evolution being a non-thinking, non-feeling, etc process there is no concept of God or religion with in its beliefs. there is no foundation for the concept of God or god, no source for religion YET in every society both past and present we find religion, we find false gods and we find the one True God. in every society we find some story that relates to the Bible, whether it be creation, or the flood but we find no story that incorporates evolution or its pre-historic identity.
for evolution to be true, there would be no drive with in us to fill that void that only religion can because it should be non-existent. the fact that the people of the world, both past and present, have had to fill that spiritual need shows that evolution could not be responsible for the origin of life.
it cannot; for it didn't provide for it nor could it instill it in any of its by-product species because it wasn't there to begin with. you can not even answer the questions, where did the idea of religion come from? and why is it in every society in one form or another? nor can you answer the question why people seek to fill that spiritual void by finding God? or why the concept of religion, gods, evil spirits, and God be so sustainable if there is no originating spiritual force (God of the Bible).
here is something else to comtemplate:
with evolution being a non-thinking, non-feeling, etc process there is no concept of God or religion with in its beliefs. there is no foundation for the concept of God or god, no source for religion YET in every society both past and present we find religion, we find false gods and we find the one True God. in every society we find some story that relates to the Bible, whether it be creation, or the flood but we find no story that incorporates evolution or its pre-historic identity.
for evolution to be true, there would be no drive with in us to fill that void that only religion can because it should be non-existent. the fact that the people of the world, both past and present, have had to fill that spiritual need shows that evolution could not be responsible for the origin of life.
it cannot; for it didn't provide for it nor could it instill it in any of its by-product species because it wasn't there to begin with. you can not even answer the questions, where did the idea of religion come from? and why is it in every society in one form or another? nor can you answer the question why people seek to fill that spiritual void by finding God? or why the concept of religion, gods, evil spirits, and God be so sustainable if there is no originating spiritual force (God of the Bible).
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Rokcet Scientist
"Must"?archaeologist wrote:i know what it is and i find that it is faulty thinkiong as it does not take into account those tribes in south america and africa who, even in the 20th century, have no written record for their history.OK, I'll tell you ONE last time: history, my boy, is the written record. Pre-history is the non-written record
so all history, both written and oral can not be subdivided into their special categories but must remain as one unit known as history.
LOL
So now you are making up the rules? You sure you aren't God? You seem to think so.Let's see what the man upstairs thinks of such arrogance.
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Guest
ELVIS HAS LEFT THE BUILDING
Substituting curiousity or emotion for factual substance is the definition of the problem in the discouse in this topic. "Archaeologist," who is not, by definition a scientific archaeologist, simply looks for any scrap of disconneceted physical "evidence" to support an emotion-based preconception. I would not be surprised if this writer believes in the Ptolemaic cosmos with the Earth at the center of all the universe.archaeologist2 wrote: for evolution to be true, there would be no drive with in us to fill that void that only religion can because it should be non-existent. the fact that the people of the world, both past and present, have had to fill that spiritual need shows that evolution could not be responsible for the origin of life.
.
But that is all sheer cant. We are not talking with each other, but TO each other.
Last night before going to bed, I read this poster's response to one of my earlier commentaries. The nature and tone of the writer's comments angered me; only on rising this morning, after some half-dream-state reviews, did I realize where I have encountered such methods and manners before - and why I should have unreasonably been angered by a stranger in what is ultimately a completely meaningless discourse.
I have a colleague who uses similar methods to defend poor work riddled with inaccuracies. Every encounter is a strangling, maddening attempt to get beyond that person's smug wall of self-assured defensiveness. And, yes, in those cases I invariably devote hours or days producing detailed citations for every point - which my colleague then dissects looking for any tiny scrap to continue justifying sweeping errors.
In that circumstance, the issue matters and there are abiters who understand accuracy and clarity are essential to our work product. My colleague consistently is forced to make correction - and persistently sticks to a flawed, lazy method of using inadequate sources and other people's work so this cycle will never stop.
But here there is no need to continue, and the dispute is ultimately one that admits of no resolution or progress; "Archaeologist" will suffer nothing but a convert on the knees, confessing the "true" faith. Hmm, seems oddly reminiscent of Galileo recanting at St. Peter's.
This is not a give-and-take of active minds seeking improvement. It is evangelism on both sides in which there will be no progress. Those who differ with "Archaeologist" are, after all, as persuaded of "truth" as that person is. I am abandoning the field not to cede it to a smug, self-assured preacher, but to devote my time to meaningful discussion and effort with others where communication is possible. If "Archaeologist" wishes to trumpet triumph, then let him or her do so in an empty auditorium.
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Rokcet Scientist
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Guest
how could one be curious? as presented, evolution has no concept of God or religion so where would the curiosity come from to explore a non-existent idea? why would it be in all civilizations? there would be no point for it to exist or to be practiced.Substituting curiousity or emotion for factual substance
i see people too afraid to face the inadequacies of their own belief system. i take no joy in seeing you suffer and i am only pointing out the fragility and limitedness of your theory.I see a pitiful, machiavellian creationist revelling in, and getting off on his own obnoxiousness towards others
i am still waiting for you to address the questions, logically, simply without using attacks on me as a distraction from your own inabilities. if evolution were true, we would not be having this discussion.
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Frank Harrist
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Guest
actually not one of my questions have ever been addressed, let alone answered but that is par for the course.Each and every one of your questions has been answered
enough evidence is there for the Biblical account of the flood to be considered with all seriousness. just because i believe the Bible does not mean that i ignore what physical evidence scientists find. i may not agree with non-religious researchers and their conclusions but they do do good work and they find data that most people do not go searching for.
yet again if one is going to be honest, they should not be so quick to eliminate the Biblical account and run to the nearest evolutionary theory. what is found are clues to the past just not the past that the evolutionary adherents want to find.
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Rokcet Scientist
You're too kind...!archaeologist wrote:[...] i take no joy in seeing you suffer [...]
AND you're clairvoyant, apparently!
Guys! This is the proof! Gods exists! We got a genuwine, honest-to-god (...) MIRACLE!
How about it? Shall we propose whatsisname for sainthood to our beloved ueber-creationist, Benedict XVI?
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Guest
unfortunately, you seem to want to have sometypeof proof that can't be given in the manner in which you want it. the evidence is there if youwant to accept it, if not then thereis little i can do.
here is a book that may help you:
"the stones cry out" by randall price it is a good read, full of information tobe honestly considered. here is a quote:
"yet historians will admit that our present knowledge of the past is sorely limited.what we do know has come with major gaps and often unanticipated revisions. this has also been true with respect to the Bible. even though scriptures present historical information, that information is selective and incomplete. this fits with the theological purpose of the Bible, for it was not writen as a textbook of history"
here is a book that may help you:
"the stones cry out" by randall price it is a good read, full of information tobe honestly considered. here is a quote:
"yet historians will admit that our present knowledge of the past is sorely limited.what we do know has come with major gaps and often unanticipated revisions. this has also been true with respect to the Bible. even though scriptures present historical information, that information is selective and incomplete. this fits with the theological purpose of the Bible, for it was not writen as a textbook of history"
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Leona Conner
- Posts: 476
- Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:40 am
- Location: Tennessee
"yet historians will admit that our present knowledge of the past is sorely limited.what we do know has come with major gaps and often unanticipated revisions. this has also been true with respect to the Bible. even though scriptures present historical information, that information is selective and incomplete. this fits with the theological purpose of the Bible, for it was not writen as a textbook of history"
This quote makes all your arguments moot. You have been arguing against us because you say that science is not conclusive. According to this quote neither is the Bible, therefore the Bible is NOT INFALLIBLE and you have been declared "null and void"
This quote makes all your arguments moot. You have been arguing against us because you say that science is not conclusive. According to this quote neither is the Bible, therefore the Bible is NOT INFALLIBLE and you have been declared "null and void"
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Guest
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Tech
Quote:
what the Bible tells us is 100% true
Then explain this
"Jesus is coming soon!"
Actually, this isn't just one prophecy but the same type of prophecy repeated again and again throughout the New Testament. Very often, the promise was that Jesus was to return within the lifetimes of the people living at the time these books were written.
2000 years later, assuming that Jesus ever really existed in the first place, all of these people have tasted death and we're still waiting.
Bold emphasis mine:
Matthew 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.
Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Matthew 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
(Note: the Gospels have arguably been witnessed to all nations and we're still waiting).
Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Matthew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Mark 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
Mark 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Luke 9:27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
Luke 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
John 21:22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
Romans 13:11-12 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
Romans 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.
1st Corinthians 7:29 But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none;
1st Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
1st Corinthians 15:51-52 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Philippians 4:5 Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.
1st Thessalonians 4:15-17 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep... Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1st Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2nd Thessalonians 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Hebrews 1:1-2 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son,
Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Hebrews 10:37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
James 5:8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.
1st Peter 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.
1st John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1st John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
1st John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
Rev 3:11 Behold, I (Jesus) come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
Rev 22:7 Behold, I (Jesus) come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I (Jesus) come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Rev 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
Throughout history, Christians have cried that we're living in the endtimes. As the reader can judge by these circa 2000 year old Bible quotes, today's doomsday criers are nothing new.
Also see the OT passages that make similar claims below.
"The Day of the Lord is at hand"
Biblical quotes citing the end times are "at hand" predated the alleged life of Jesus. Here are examples in the Old Testament (bold emphasis mine):
Ezekiel 30:3 For the day is near, even the day of the LORD is near, a cloudy day; it shall be the time of the heathen.
Joel 1:15 Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.
Joel 2:1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
Joel 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
Amos 8:2 Then said the LORD unto me, The end is come upon my people of Israel; I will not again pass by them any more.
Obadiah 1:15 For the day of the LORD is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.
Zephaniah 1:14 The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.
See also all the New Testament passages roughly 2000 years old that claim that Jesus is returning "soon".
Nothing ever changes. Religious leaders and prophets are forever screaming about the "end times" being neigh. Fear is a useful tool of control.
One wonders how long they can get away with crying wolf.
"Behold, a virgin shall conceive..."
The passage in Isaiah 7:14 is mistranslated as follows:
Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
This passage in Isaiah is mistakenly regarded as a prophecy for the coming of Jesus Christ. However, when the whole scripture is read and the passage is taken into context, it's clear that this is not the case for three reasons:
1. Incorrect Translation: The original text in Hebrew doesn't use the word for "virgin" which would be "bethulah". The word that was actually used is "almah" which means "young woman".
So the correct translation would be
Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a young woman shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
That a young woman might bear a son is hardly a great prophecy. This certainly happens all the time. That the child would be called "God with us" (Immanuel), while rare today, happened a number of times in that era. The Jews had many declared "messiahs" during the time of Roman occupation. Therefore, this whole prophecy seems much like predicting a hot day in Arizona in the middle of July.
2. The prophecy referred to the days of Isaiah: Isaiah was speaking of a revelation for his time, for the King Ahaz to reassure him that the Israeli-Syrian alliance against him would not prevail. These events were hundreds of years before the alleged life of Christ and therefore the whole prophecy had nothing to do with Jesus.
Isaiah 7:1-8 And it came to pass in the days of Ahaz the son of Jotham, the son of Uzziah, king of Judah, that Rezin the king of Syria, and Pekah the son of Remaliah, king of Israel, went up toward Jerusalem to war against it, but could not prevail against it. And it was told the house of David, saying, Syria is confederate with Ephraim. And his heart was moved, and the heart of his people, as the trees of the wood are moved with the wind. Then said the LORD unto Isaiah, Go forth now to meet Ahaz, thou, and Shearjashub thy son, at the end of the conduit of the upper pool in the highway of the fuller's field; And say unto him, Take heed, and be quiet; fear not, neither be fainthearted for the two tails of these smoking firebrands, for the fierce anger of Rezin with Syria, and of the son of Remaliah. Because Syria, Ephraim, and the son of Remaliah, have taken evil counsel against thee, saying, Let us go up against Judah, and vex it, and let us make a breach therein for us, and set a king in the midst of it, even the son of Tabeal: Thus saith the Lord GOD, It shall not stand, neither shall it come to pass. For the head of Syria is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is Rezin; and within threescore and five years shall Ephraim be broken, that it be not a people.
3. This prophecy was, in fact, a false prophecy: The Bible itself acknowledges that the Biblegod's promise was a false promise, for Syria and Isreal did prevail against Ahaz.
2nd Chronicles 28:5 Wherefore the LORD his God delivered him (Ahaz) into the hand of the king of Syria; and they smote him, and carried away a great multitude of them captives, and brought them to Damascus. And he was also delivered into the hand of the king of Israel, who smote him with a great slaughter.
Oops. Looks like the Biblegod's a flip-flopper. He promised Ahaz victory and then delivers the king to his enemies.
This story ought to give Christians pause about their loyal service to the Biblegod. Is he going to be so loyal in return?
Jesus and the Bloodline from King David
The New Testament authors appear to have created a bloodline from David to Jesus in an effort to make good a prophecy in Psalms:
Psalms 89:3-4 I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant, Thy seed will I establish forever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.
Psalms 89:34-37 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David. His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me. It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah.
The Davidic dynasty ended with Zedekiah. So much for the Biblegod’s vow by his “holiness”. The authors of Psalms forgot one basic rule of prophecy: always keep them vague so you can always claim they came true no matter what happens.
No doubt the New Testament authors were concerned that this prophecy clearly hadn’t come true in their days under Roman occupation. A way to make the prophecy good is to claim that Jesus is the blood descendant of David. Tracing the bloodline from David to Jesus allows them to claim that the prophecy is fulfilled because Jesus reigns upon the throne of Heaven.
There are two different bloodlines offered in the New Testament, all contradictory, with the shared names in bold and shared but slightly altered names in bold italics:
The Matthew Version: (Matt 1:6-16) (28 Generations) David, Solomon, Rehoboam, Abijah, Asaph, Jehosahphat, Joram, Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, Hezekiah, Manasseh, Amos, Josiah, Jechoniah, Salathiel, Zerubbabel, Abiud, Eliakim, Azor, Zadoc, Achim, Eliud, Eleazar, Matthan, Jacob, Joseph, Jesus.
The Luke Version: (Luke 3:21-31) (43 Generations) David, Nathan, Mattatha, Menna, Melea, Eliakim, Jonam, Joseph, Judah, Simeon, Levi, Matthat, Jorim, Eliezer, Joshua, Er, Elmadam, Cosam, Addi, Melchi, Neri, Shealthiel, Zerubbabel, Rhesa, Joanan, Joda, Josech, Semein, Mattathias, Maath, Naggai, Esli, Nahum, Amos, Mattathias, Joseph, Jannai, Melchi, Levi, Matthat, Heli, Joseph, Jesus
Not counting David and Jesus, there are only four shared names comparing the two alleged genealogies. Of these three, two are slightly altered, if we assume that Joseph’s alleged grandfather, Matthan and Matthat, are the same man and that Shealtiel and Salatiel, the alleged father of Zerubbabel are the same man. Of the two that remain, there is a chronological discrepancy as Eliakim is Zerubbabel’s grandchild in Matthew and his 15 times great grandfather in Luke.
Neither of these two genealogies agree with the Old Testament account of David’s bloodline. The Old Testament book First Chronicles offers a slightly different account from Matthew. The names that exist in Chronicles which are missing in Matthew are in bold while the slightly altered names are in italics:
The First Chronicles Version of the David Bloodline to Jeconiah: (1st Chronicles 3:10-16) Solomon, Rehoboam, Abijah, Asa (Asaph in Matthew), Jehosaphat, Joram, Ahaziahm (Uzziah in Matthew?), Joash, Amaziah, Azariah, Jotham, Ahaz, Hezekiah, Manasseh, Amon (Amos in Matthew), Josiah, Jehoiakim, Jeconiah,
There’s a serious discrepancy in the name of Joram’s son. It’s Ahaziahm in First Chronicles but Uzziah in Matthew.
Shealtiel is one of the sons of Jeconiah. Is this the same son as Salatiel, whom Matthew mentions as Jeconiah’s son, or was this a different son? Luke seems to disagree with the Old Testament, saying that Shealtiel is the son of Neri, not Jeconiah. Other than Shealtiel, none of the names in geneology offered by Luke appear in the First Chronicles version. In Matthew, four names from the First Chronicles’ account are missing and three names are changed.
And so, having established a bloodline from David to Jesus (albeit with three contradictory accounts which, by themselves, should discredit the doctrine of Biblical inerrancy since all three can't be correct), the Bible proclaims that the prophecy of Psalms is fulfilled:
Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
There's just one problem: Joseph isn't the biological father of Jesus.
All three contradictory accounts for the alleged genealogy of Jesus are wrong according to the story provided in the Bible. Jesus is allegedly the “son of God”, conceived “immaculately” by the Holy Spirit. Mary allegedly never “knew” Joseph or any other man prior to her alleged conception of Jesus.
Jesus, since he wasn’t Joseph’s biological son, didn’t carry the blood of Joseph and therefore wasn’t “the fruit of the loins” of David. Psalms 89:3-4 is a false prophecy, no matter which alleged bloodline you prefer.
The Bethlehem Prophecy
Matthew claims that Jesus fulfilled the prophecy in Micah 5:2.
Matt 2:5-6 And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet, And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.
Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
But the following verses in Micah clarify that this ruler is a warlord who defeats the Assyrians (which Jesus never does).
Micah 5:3-6 Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel. And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth. And this man shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men. And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our borders.
"I... called my son out of Egypt"
Matthew claims another fulfilled prophecy when Jesus allegedly departed from Egypt.
Matt 2:15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.
However, the whole verse makes it clear that it's not a prophecy but a reference to the Exodus of the Jewish people from Egypt. Israel as a nation is, in this verse, the "son" that the Biblegod refers to.
Hos 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.
By the way, there's no historical evidence that the Jewish exodus from Egypt ever occurred.
"One Fold... One Shepherd"
Jesus predicts that he will unify all Christians.
John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Jesus apparently couldn't foresee how many denominations of Christianity there would be and how many bloody wars would be fought between them.
"No Oppressor shall pass through (Israel) any more"
Zechariah 9:8 And I will encamp about mine house because of the army, because of him that passeth by, and because of him that returneth: and no oppressor shall pass through them any more: for now have I seen with mine eyes.
Unfortunately for the Israelis, this land was conquered many times since the Old Testament was written. Romans, Byzantines, Persians, and Arabs to name a few have all conquered this territory.
The Rapture
1st Thessalonians 4:15-17 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep... Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
This passage (bold emphasis mine) was mentioned in the "Jesus is coming soon" false prophecy but it bears mentioning in a class of its own because of how important "The Rapture" is to Christians.
The entire verse in context of Chapter 4 of 1st Thessalonians clearly states "we", as in the presumed author Paul and his followers whom he was addressing. Paul, like many of the other authors of the New Testament, believed that the return of Jesus would be within their lifetimes.
Since the rapture never occurred, it's a false prophecy.
Death and the Forbidden Fruit
The Biblegod warns Adam that on the day he eats the forbidden fruit, he will die.
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
So Adam eats the forbidden fruit.
Gen 3:6 she (Eve) took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband (Adam) with her; and he did eat.
And Adam lives to be 930 years old.
Gen 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
So the Biblegod was off by approximately 900 years or so.
I know this is long but even he cant explain away so many false claims
And I know he wont , It will be some silly excuse and another tirade.
But I was always taught to houmor the infirm of mind.
what the Bible tells us is 100% true
Then explain this
"Jesus is coming soon!"
Actually, this isn't just one prophecy but the same type of prophecy repeated again and again throughout the New Testament. Very often, the promise was that Jesus was to return within the lifetimes of the people living at the time these books were written.
2000 years later, assuming that Jesus ever really existed in the first place, all of these people have tasted death and we're still waiting.
Bold emphasis mine:
Matthew 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.
Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Matthew 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
(Note: the Gospels have arguably been witnessed to all nations and we're still waiting).
Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Matthew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Mark 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
Mark 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Luke 9:27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
Luke 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
John 21:22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.
Romans 13:11-12 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
Romans 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.
1st Corinthians 7:29 But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none;
1st Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
1st Corinthians 15:51-52 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Philippians 4:5 Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.
1st Thessalonians 4:15-17 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep... Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1st Thessalonians 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2nd Thessalonians 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Hebrews 1:1-2 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son,
Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Hebrews 10:37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
James 5:8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.
1st Peter 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.
1st John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1st John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
1st John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
Rev 3:11 Behold, I (Jesus) come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
Rev 22:7 Behold, I (Jesus) come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I (Jesus) come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Rev 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
Throughout history, Christians have cried that we're living in the endtimes. As the reader can judge by these circa 2000 year old Bible quotes, today's doomsday criers are nothing new.
Also see the OT passages that make similar claims below.
"The Day of the Lord is at hand"
Biblical quotes citing the end times are "at hand" predated the alleged life of Jesus. Here are examples in the Old Testament (bold emphasis mine):
Ezekiel 30:3 For the day is near, even the day of the LORD is near, a cloudy day; it shall be the time of the heathen.
Joel 1:15 Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.
Joel 2:1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
Joel 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
Amos 8:2 Then said the LORD unto me, The end is come upon my people of Israel; I will not again pass by them any more.
Obadiah 1:15 For the day of the LORD is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.
Zephaniah 1:14 The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.
See also all the New Testament passages roughly 2000 years old that claim that Jesus is returning "soon".
Nothing ever changes. Religious leaders and prophets are forever screaming about the "end times" being neigh. Fear is a useful tool of control.
One wonders how long they can get away with crying wolf.
"Behold, a virgin shall conceive..."
The passage in Isaiah 7:14 is mistranslated as follows:
Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
This passage in Isaiah is mistakenly regarded as a prophecy for the coming of Jesus Christ. However, when the whole scripture is read and the passage is taken into context, it's clear that this is not the case for three reasons:
1. Incorrect Translation: The original text in Hebrew doesn't use the word for "virgin" which would be "bethulah". The word that was actually used is "almah" which means "young woman".
So the correct translation would be
Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a young woman shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
That a young woman might bear a son is hardly a great prophecy. This certainly happens all the time. That the child would be called "God with us" (Immanuel), while rare today, happened a number of times in that era. The Jews had many declared "messiahs" during the time of Roman occupation. Therefore, this whole prophecy seems much like predicting a hot day in Arizona in the middle of July.
2. The prophecy referred to the days of Isaiah: Isaiah was speaking of a revelation for his time, for the King Ahaz to reassure him that the Israeli-Syrian alliance against him would not prevail. These events were hundreds of years before the alleged life of Christ and therefore the whole prophecy had nothing to do with Jesus.
Isaiah 7:1-8 And it came to pass in the days of Ahaz the son of Jotham, the son of Uzziah, king of Judah, that Rezin the king of Syria, and Pekah the son of Remaliah, king of Israel, went up toward Jerusalem to war against it, but could not prevail against it. And it was told the house of David, saying, Syria is confederate with Ephraim. And his heart was moved, and the heart of his people, as the trees of the wood are moved with the wind. Then said the LORD unto Isaiah, Go forth now to meet Ahaz, thou, and Shearjashub thy son, at the end of the conduit of the upper pool in the highway of the fuller's field; And say unto him, Take heed, and be quiet; fear not, neither be fainthearted for the two tails of these smoking firebrands, for the fierce anger of Rezin with Syria, and of the son of Remaliah. Because Syria, Ephraim, and the son of Remaliah, have taken evil counsel against thee, saying, Let us go up against Judah, and vex it, and let us make a breach therein for us, and set a king in the midst of it, even the son of Tabeal: Thus saith the Lord GOD, It shall not stand, neither shall it come to pass. For the head of Syria is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is Rezin; and within threescore and five years shall Ephraim be broken, that it be not a people.
3. This prophecy was, in fact, a false prophecy: The Bible itself acknowledges that the Biblegod's promise was a false promise, for Syria and Isreal did prevail against Ahaz.
2nd Chronicles 28:5 Wherefore the LORD his God delivered him (Ahaz) into the hand of the king of Syria; and they smote him, and carried away a great multitude of them captives, and brought them to Damascus. And he was also delivered into the hand of the king of Israel, who smote him with a great slaughter.
Oops. Looks like the Biblegod's a flip-flopper. He promised Ahaz victory and then delivers the king to his enemies.
This story ought to give Christians pause about their loyal service to the Biblegod. Is he going to be so loyal in return?
Jesus and the Bloodline from King David
The New Testament authors appear to have created a bloodline from David to Jesus in an effort to make good a prophecy in Psalms:
Psalms 89:3-4 I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant, Thy seed will I establish forever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.
Psalms 89:34-37 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David. His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me. It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah.
The Davidic dynasty ended with Zedekiah. So much for the Biblegod’s vow by his “holiness”. The authors of Psalms forgot one basic rule of prophecy: always keep them vague so you can always claim they came true no matter what happens.
No doubt the New Testament authors were concerned that this prophecy clearly hadn’t come true in their days under Roman occupation. A way to make the prophecy good is to claim that Jesus is the blood descendant of David. Tracing the bloodline from David to Jesus allows them to claim that the prophecy is fulfilled because Jesus reigns upon the throne of Heaven.
There are two different bloodlines offered in the New Testament, all contradictory, with the shared names in bold and shared but slightly altered names in bold italics:
The Matthew Version: (Matt 1:6-16) (28 Generations) David, Solomon, Rehoboam, Abijah, Asaph, Jehosahphat, Joram, Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, Hezekiah, Manasseh, Amos, Josiah, Jechoniah, Salathiel, Zerubbabel, Abiud, Eliakim, Azor, Zadoc, Achim, Eliud, Eleazar, Matthan, Jacob, Joseph, Jesus.
The Luke Version: (Luke 3:21-31) (43 Generations) David, Nathan, Mattatha, Menna, Melea, Eliakim, Jonam, Joseph, Judah, Simeon, Levi, Matthat, Jorim, Eliezer, Joshua, Er, Elmadam, Cosam, Addi, Melchi, Neri, Shealthiel, Zerubbabel, Rhesa, Joanan, Joda, Josech, Semein, Mattathias, Maath, Naggai, Esli, Nahum, Amos, Mattathias, Joseph, Jannai, Melchi, Levi, Matthat, Heli, Joseph, Jesus
Not counting David and Jesus, there are only four shared names comparing the two alleged genealogies. Of these three, two are slightly altered, if we assume that Joseph’s alleged grandfather, Matthan and Matthat, are the same man and that Shealtiel and Salatiel, the alleged father of Zerubbabel are the same man. Of the two that remain, there is a chronological discrepancy as Eliakim is Zerubbabel’s grandchild in Matthew and his 15 times great grandfather in Luke.
Neither of these two genealogies agree with the Old Testament account of David’s bloodline. The Old Testament book First Chronicles offers a slightly different account from Matthew. The names that exist in Chronicles which are missing in Matthew are in bold while the slightly altered names are in italics:
The First Chronicles Version of the David Bloodline to Jeconiah: (1st Chronicles 3:10-16) Solomon, Rehoboam, Abijah, Asa (Asaph in Matthew), Jehosaphat, Joram, Ahaziahm (Uzziah in Matthew?), Joash, Amaziah, Azariah, Jotham, Ahaz, Hezekiah, Manasseh, Amon (Amos in Matthew), Josiah, Jehoiakim, Jeconiah,
There’s a serious discrepancy in the name of Joram’s son. It’s Ahaziahm in First Chronicles but Uzziah in Matthew.
Shealtiel is one of the sons of Jeconiah. Is this the same son as Salatiel, whom Matthew mentions as Jeconiah’s son, or was this a different son? Luke seems to disagree with the Old Testament, saying that Shealtiel is the son of Neri, not Jeconiah. Other than Shealtiel, none of the names in geneology offered by Luke appear in the First Chronicles version. In Matthew, four names from the First Chronicles’ account are missing and three names are changed.
And so, having established a bloodline from David to Jesus (albeit with three contradictory accounts which, by themselves, should discredit the doctrine of Biblical inerrancy since all three can't be correct), the Bible proclaims that the prophecy of Psalms is fulfilled:
Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
There's just one problem: Joseph isn't the biological father of Jesus.
All three contradictory accounts for the alleged genealogy of Jesus are wrong according to the story provided in the Bible. Jesus is allegedly the “son of God”, conceived “immaculately” by the Holy Spirit. Mary allegedly never “knew” Joseph or any other man prior to her alleged conception of Jesus.
Jesus, since he wasn’t Joseph’s biological son, didn’t carry the blood of Joseph and therefore wasn’t “the fruit of the loins” of David. Psalms 89:3-4 is a false prophecy, no matter which alleged bloodline you prefer.
The Bethlehem Prophecy
Matthew claims that Jesus fulfilled the prophecy in Micah 5:2.
Matt 2:5-6 And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet, And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.
Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
But the following verses in Micah clarify that this ruler is a warlord who defeats the Assyrians (which Jesus never does).
Micah 5:3-6 Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel. And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth. And this man shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men. And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our borders.
"I... called my son out of Egypt"
Matthew claims another fulfilled prophecy when Jesus allegedly departed from Egypt.
Matt 2:15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.
However, the whole verse makes it clear that it's not a prophecy but a reference to the Exodus of the Jewish people from Egypt. Israel as a nation is, in this verse, the "son" that the Biblegod refers to.
Hos 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.
By the way, there's no historical evidence that the Jewish exodus from Egypt ever occurred.
"One Fold... One Shepherd"
Jesus predicts that he will unify all Christians.
John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Jesus apparently couldn't foresee how many denominations of Christianity there would be and how many bloody wars would be fought between them.
"No Oppressor shall pass through (Israel) any more"
Zechariah 9:8 And I will encamp about mine house because of the army, because of him that passeth by, and because of him that returneth: and no oppressor shall pass through them any more: for now have I seen with mine eyes.
Unfortunately for the Israelis, this land was conquered many times since the Old Testament was written. Romans, Byzantines, Persians, and Arabs to name a few have all conquered this territory.
The Rapture
1st Thessalonians 4:15-17 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep... Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
This passage (bold emphasis mine) was mentioned in the "Jesus is coming soon" false prophecy but it bears mentioning in a class of its own because of how important "The Rapture" is to Christians.
The entire verse in context of Chapter 4 of 1st Thessalonians clearly states "we", as in the presumed author Paul and his followers whom he was addressing. Paul, like many of the other authors of the New Testament, believed that the return of Jesus would be within their lifetimes.
Since the rapture never occurred, it's a false prophecy.
Death and the Forbidden Fruit
The Biblegod warns Adam that on the day he eats the forbidden fruit, he will die.
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
So Adam eats the forbidden fruit.
Gen 3:6 she (Eve) took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband (Adam) with her; and he did eat.
And Adam lives to be 930 years old.
Gen 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
So the Biblegod was off by approximately 900 years or so.
I know this is long but even he cant explain away so many false claims
And I know he wont , It will be some silly excuse and another tirade.
But I was always taught to houmor the infirm of mind.
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"Jesus is coming soon!"
Nope. In fact, the idea of him 'coming' the first time seems to be a comparatively late doctrine created by early church fathers (but never mothers) to give the Great Unwashed something tangible to hang on to since the spiritual S-o-G was too esoteric for them.
Read "The Jesus Puzzle" to find out how little reference to a physical Jesus there actually is in early christian writings.
Interesting shit. What a con game the entire thing is.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed.
-- George Carlin
-- George Carlin