Cave 13b - the 164k question

[woodrabbit]

Welcome back Ishtar, any luck with the pile up?

...was thinking the Berengia route was just simply a failed attempt by land by those who insisted on exploring by foot .... The Inuit ancestors being cut off and trapped by glacial circumstances beyond their control. Their decendents having elegantly developed skills and body chemistries that made the best of a bad situation. Otherwise just follow the coast south.

Not to put too fine a point on it....boats win.

I wonder if the pre-Columbian/Viking Inuit shaman may have seen flora and fauna in an underworld that he couldn't possibly recognize?

[Ishtar]

Welcome back Ishtar, any luck with the pile up?

Yes, we made some progress. We used a Native American technique.

I wonder if the pre-Columbian/Viking Inuit shaman may have seen flora and fauna in an underworld that he couldn't possibly recognize?

Well, I certainly saw a lot of flora and fauna that I didn't recognise!

[kbs2244]

Great story John, makes me wonder why we have to get it from an Indian newspaper quoting a London source though.
Anybody that has read Moby Dick knows that whale hunting can be a global endeavor.
Although some may wait for them to come buy locally, given enough incentive, why wouldn’t others go looking for them?
BTW, how did we get here from South Afirica?

[john]

Great story John, makes me wonder why we have to get it from an Indian newspaper quoting a London source though.
Anybody that has read Moby Dick knows that whale hunting can be a global endeavor.
Although some may wait for them to come buy locally, given enough incentive, why wouldn’t others go looking for them?
BTW, how did we get here from South Afirica?

kbs2244 -

Regarding your inquiry as to the journey from South Africa, consider this basic logic.

Ancient man was an energy miser. His primary rule for successful

Survival was "least energy expended for most energy gained."

i.e., survival of both individuals and the group rose geometrically

In terms of the least quantity of energy (calories) expended in

Finding and/or creating food, shelter, warmth.

In short, if you expend more calories than you ingest,

You die.

My argument is that the environment of the coastlines provided the

Highest percentage of success for the application of this paradigm.

My corollary to this argument is that people, in following the coastline first,

Then, occasionally and opportunistically

Discovered additional easily obtained land-based energy sources

Which they pursued inland, and having pursued them inland,

Became "landlocked" in their choice of energy sources.

Also note that rivers, aside from being an obvious source of fish

And fresh water, are natural highways inland.

An easy example of this would be discovering herd mammals such as reindeer or caribou, or for that matter, mammoth, and locking into their
seasonal migratory trail.

Andronamous fish runs are topologically similar.

And so on and so forth.

Therefore, from South Africa, pick either coast and follow it around the

World, remembering that both the Northern Atlantic and Pacific rims,

Though icebound, were unbelievably rich in marine life

And therefore coastlines which fit the paradigm of

"Least energy expended for most energy gained."


hoka hey


john

[Digit]

If you check John you will find that I made precisely the same observations some time ago, even pointing out the lack of inland sites from the period of these early migrations. How many site now lie beneath the waves I wonder?

[woodrabbit]

http://archaeology.about.com/cs/humanor ... sriver.htm

The people who lived in these caves were modern humans who lived by recognizably human methods, hunting game and gathering plant foods. Evidence for our other hominid ancestors--Homo erectus and Homo ergaster, for example--suggests that they primarily scavenged other animal's kills; the Homo sapiens of Klasies River caves knew how to hunt. The Klasies River people dined on shellfish, antelope, seals, penguins, and some unidentified plant foods, roasting them in hearths built for the purpose. The caves were not permanent residences for the humans who inhabited them, as best as we can tell; they only stayed for a few weeks, then moved along to the next hunting stand. Stone tools and flakes made from beach cobbles were recovered from the earliest levels of the site.

John's post:

[Therefore, from South Africa, pick either coast and follow it around the

World, remembering that both the Northern Atlantic and Pacific rims,

Though icebound, were unbelievably rich in marine life

And therefore coastlines which fit the paradigm of

"Least energy expended for most energy gained."

Or ...."honey, we've eaten all the oysters and berries near this cave, lets move up the coast and see if its any better"

With John's energy equation as the primary driving force, it would take just 2 or 3 generations to comfortably move a thousand miles up the coast on foot, and less than one by boat.

[Digit]

It seems totally unrealistic to me that people would on the coast and not develop boats.

[Minimalist]

The Club has their own set of rules.

I wonder if there has ever been a coastal community which did not develop boats?

[john]

All -

Though posted elsewhere, pretty relevant to this thread also.

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news ... 2d&k=96411

Note that it is a 3 page article.


john

[kbs2244]

Another story about the waleing culture in Siberia.
Some good PICs.
Sure leaves no doubt that they were going after some big fish.


http://www.uaf.edu/news/news/20080402153648.html

[john]

All -

More one the world-class Australian swimming team..........

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/ ... 02548.html


Now, given the 35k figure, and inland at that,

It would seem that certain "aboriginals"

Had some major cognitive shit together, say,

At 40k,

Minimum.

This is to say, the techne to build seagoing watercraft and

The hunting/gathering techne to survive on "new ground."

Makes me think that not only was there some pretty sophisticated

Communication, but multigenerational sequential communication at that.

Now multiply this potential by

All coastlines,

All crossings.


hoka hey


john

[john]

All -

Sorry for the multiple posts.

There's presently an error message popup when you post which leads you

To try again and again.



j

[Minimalist]

I cleaned it up, John. Board's been a mite twitchy lately.

[Ishtar]

Recommended reading for John, woodrabbit and Dannan14:

The Mind in the Cave by J David Lewis Williams:

The breathtakingly beautiful art created deep inside the caves of western Europe in the late Ice Age provokes awe and wonder in equal measure. What do these animals and symbols, depicted on the walls of caves such as Lascaux, Chauvet and Altamira, tell us about the nature of the ancestral mind? How did these images spring, sophisticated and fully formed, seemingly from nowhere into the human story? The Mind in the Cave puts forward the most plausible explanation yet proposed for the origins of image-making and art. David Lewis-Williams skilfully interweaves a lifetime of anthropological research with the most recent neurological insights to offer a convincing account of how we became human and, in the process, began to make art. This is a masterful piece of detective work, casting light on the darkest mysteries of our ancestors and on the nature of our own consciousness and experience.

[Ishtar]

Also, by the same author: Inside the Neolithic Mind: Consciousness, Cosmos and the Realm of the Gods.

This brilliantly argued and elegantly written book examines the intricate web of belief, myth and society in the Neolithic period, continuing the story begun in the bestselling and critically acclaimed book The Mind in the Cave. Drawing on the latest research, the authors skilfully link material on human consciousness, imagery and religious concepts to propose provocative new theories about the causes of an ancient revolution in cosmology, the origins of social complexity and even the drive behind the domestication of plants and animals.