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Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 7:10 pm

Swords vs. cannons in the middle ages. One is in your face and violent, the other is faceless and violent. History repeats itself once again.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 7:14 pm

which battle was this ?

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 7:20 pm

yeah got me, like I said i'm tired and going to bed. Thought I was being clever though - first use of the cannon in warfare, was in Cividale Italy 14th century - will be back later.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 7:24 pm

nah it was four years before that when King Edward III used them during an invasion of scotland

he was a Christian too
mind you so were the Germans at Cividale
see a pattern yet ?

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 7:27 pm

marduk wrote:nah it was four years before that when King Edward III used them during an invasion of scotland

he was a Christian too
mind you so were the Germans at Cividale
see a pattern yet ?

'crakys' - yeah I see the pattern. - ciao

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 4:29 am

I agree absolutely Monk. But I think that God, Yaweh, and Allah have nothing to do with it. The only creed that the Birmingham or World Trade Centre bombers practised was that of hypocracy and the bully. Many of the killers incarcerated here probably express no creed.
The anti religious views expressed on this forum are sometimes as strongly held as those who claim to follow a creed, but it doesn't make them killers.
Religion has all too frequently been a peg on which to hang political aspirations, but that is not the fault of the religion.
If you or Marduk were to start bombing churchs etc, would it be fair to blame all non-believers. This is the route that led to the killings in Ulster.
The first KNOWN references to 'cannon' was at Metz in 1324 Marduk, mate.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 4:47 am

actually they're documented in China from 1128

which means of course
watch out for the Zen Buddhists
come to think of it
even their monks fight

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 6:03 am

I was referring to the west Marduk re cannon, and the reason I put the word into marks is the early references would not be to 'cannon' as now understood. The Zen fighters, I seem to recall, was a responce to persecution. Same with the Sikh turban and fighting skills, so who do you blame then, the persecutors or the persecuted?

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 6:43 am

I blame the guilty
i find thats the best way

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 7:23 am

I agree, unfortunately some idiots don't know when to stop. Like we are responsible for what the Crusaders did, some want us to pay compensation for the slave trade, and of course the Jews are responsible for the death of the Christ. I have disagreed with much of what you have said, (and I don't like your hair cut)

but I certainly don't wish to kill you. These people are just looking for something to excuse their behaviour and religion is handy.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:17 am

and of course the Jews are responsible for the death of the Christ

he went deliberately to his death to allegedly die for our sins
I'd blame him
or his dad

Digit · Post by **Digit** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:27 am

Marduk! You look human, and no, I'm putting an image of me on. You are correct about his death, this makes his executioners agents of God. An explanation I've have used to halt accusations from 'Christians' that Jews were responsible. It doesn't always go down well though because people don't like there justifications for hatred pulled out from under them.

marduk · Post by **marduk** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:35 am

I'm putting an image of me on

go on then

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:44 am

Digit wrote:The only creed that the Birmingham or World Trade Centre bombers practised was that of hypocracy and the bully. Many of the killers incarcerated here probably express no creed.
The anti religious views expressed on this forum are sometimes as strongly held as those who claim to follow a creed, but it doesn't make them killers.

You make some valid points there, Digit, but what about when Osama makes remarks like 'Islam vs. the Crusaders of the Cross'. Is he not trying to stuff the conflict into a religious framework? And Jihad in the literal sense means 'my struggle' (like mein kampf) BUT they have expanded the meaning to 'Holy War'. I agree that Islam and Judeo-Christian principles are peaceful and men corrupt the idealism, but in this case it looks like these bullies have absconded with an entire religion.

(And thank goodness this is the headlines everyday or we wouldn't be allowed to discuss it in this forum)

Forum Monk · Post by **Forum Monk** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:54 am

marduk wrote:
I'm putting an image of me on
go on then

Marduk - didn't recognize the face - actually, though the old picture made you look somewhat like a hooligan, I had grown comfortable with it. This pic detracts from your rebel persona.